To crush or not to crush? [Archive]

Mr Burns

08-19-2008, 10:31 AM

Bit of an experiment over whether or not to crush the cut stem when aero cloning.
Donor mom is a TGA Genetics 'Big Foot' (British Columbia Hash Plant x Grim male).
The aero cloner is a 20 site unit but to be honest you can easily fit 2 cuts per neoprene disc, so in the interest of 'for the sake of' :p I've taken 40 cuts, 20 with straight cut stems and 20 cut and crushed under the blade.

Day 1:

No rooting hormone as per usual. PH set to 6.1 with base city water coming in at an EC of 0.6. Light at this stage is a single 125W blue spectrum flo.
Lid is on with all vents closed for the first 5 days.
Because these areo cloners have such a vigorous mist I'm not going to be lifting the lid and bottle misting the upper growth. Within a few hours the sides of the dome will be dripping in moisture so I'll leave well alone, no adjustments, no flushes and no topping off. They're in their till they root, or rot god damn it :laugh:

Mr Burns

08-19-2008, 10:32 AM

... and there's more....

Mr Burns

08-19-2008, 10:34 AM

I'll keep this thread updated as things develop :gthumb:
:pass:

Lilbud

08-19-2008, 10:52 AM

Mr Burns

08-19-2008, 11:25 AM

Waaay to go Mr B 2thumbs !!

Is that one of those Amazon aero cloners?,

I've been looking at the Amazon stuff for a cpl of weeks now.....seriously thinking bout giving it a go as I'm thinking I'd get a lot more bang for me buck if I utilise my floorspace more!!!

Bud man!! :hello: I just looked at the biggest hydro supplier round our parts and they also have it if you take a peak :) The 10 & 20 site version :2cents:

There's lots of home made ones and god knows I'm up for a bit of DIY, but these plastic blown moulded ones are bloody hardy :2cents: These have the toughest dome lids I've come across so it's probably worth grabbing one before the whole market is flooded with the thin cheap easily breakable ones, which are starting to appear :(

So are you cloning via soil right now :shrug: Tell all bugger lugs.... :)

Foxy

08-19-2008, 12:05 PM

Great idea for an experiment Buttface! ;)

Thanks for doing this Matey, gonna be of real use to a lot of people. 2thumbs

I can't use my EZ cloner where I've moved to, too noisy at night, so I'm back to old skool rockwool cloning. :(

Mr Burns

08-19-2008, 12:33 PM

Great idea for an experiment Buttface! ;)
Remember that 9+ cloning methods we done :shrug: Well someone suggested crushing the cut stem which I did in hope of hindering growth, but even with the dome off from day 1 it was a good result.
I never looked back at the method butt seeing how I have two moms outgrowing their space I thought why not :shrug:
I can't use my EZ cloner where I've moved to, too noisy at night, so I'm back to old skool rockwool cloning. :(
Bugger! No cloner runs :eek: Bloody eck I've had how long with fem seed grows :shrug: so I kinda know where you're at Basil. It sucks for sure.
What about them small foggers, they're zero noise and medium free :shrug:

So hows the rockwool method going farty pants :shrug:

Lilbud

08-19-2008, 12:58 PM

Bud man!! :hello: I just looked at the biggest hydro supplier round our parts and they also have it if you take a peak :) The 10 & 20 site version :2cents:

There's lots of home made ones and god knows I'm up for a bit of DIY, but these plastic blown moulded ones are bloody hardy :2cents: These have the toughest dome lids I've come across so it's probably worth grabbing one before the whole market is flooded with the thin cheap easily breakable ones, which are starting to appear :(

So are you cloning via soil right now :shrug: Tell all bugger lugs.... :)

:lol: Soil...Me...You avin a bubble or sumfin?? Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much hassle n muck for me fella ;)

If anything It'd be coco, but I've not done any yet!! I was contemplating doing some cloning next round, wanna try and cut down on my grow times a bit as well as trying a sog type set up....

Got to sort a new grow sytem out first tho, hence why I wuz lookin at the Amazon's..... Basil made an interesting point tho about the Cloners being noisy!!

If the cloner spray units are the same in the bigger units, it might be no good for me ...One of the main reasons for wanting to move away from DWC, is the hum of the airstones at night is an absolute mare to contain!! :mad:

Mr Burns

08-19-2008, 01:57 PM

...contemplating doing some cloning next round, wanna try and cut down on my grow times a bit as well as trying a sog type set up....
Mahhhn this is just the reason I love cloning. Fem seeds have been kind to me when using quality breeds, but times like the stretch I've had with these Greenhouse Cheese fem seeds is a complete arse :confused: It looks like a fair yield so I'm not complaining, but knowing your strain and in return the spacing ratio to flip time is invaluable IMO.
I get a buzz from up-planting clones that they're just gagging to get legs on and become grown up, and they do IMO.

As for noise, you could always build a open top wooden box and sound proof it with insulation :shrug:

I'm taking a stab at 9 days till roots shows :)

CylonBud

08-19-2008, 03:23 PM

Cloning IS the way to go IMHO. Nothing pisses me more than to tend a plant for weeks only to have it be a male. :mad: It's ok if you have a bunch of females but I had only one Blue Berry seed take and it turned out male. Did get some pollen from him but it was not what I was after. Had 5 out of 8 White Rhinos be males too. They are all now resting comfortably on my compost pile. :rolleyes:. With clones you know what (pheno type and smoke) your getting and they are all females. :D I use seeds only as back up now in case A grow fails or gets tossed for security reasons. :D

CezarCronic

08-19-2008, 06:59 PM

'''''''''

Foxy

08-20-2008, 03:14 AM

What about them small foggers, they're zero noise and medium free :shrug:

Of what dark magic does one speak??? If they work I'll have one bought by the end of the day!

So hows the rockwool method going farty pants :shrug:

This being only the second time I've cloned "manually", I appear to be very successful at getting them to root above the Rockwool... None in the Rockwool though... :slap: :laugh:

CylonBud

08-20-2008, 06:31 AM

tripps

08-20-2008, 07:54 AM

So hows the rockwool method going farty pants :shrug:

This being only the second time I've cloned "manually", I appear to be very successful at getting them to root above the Rockwool... None in the Rockwool though... :slap: :laugh:

I've found if the rockwool is too wet they wont root into it. Squeeze some water out of the cube and let them go a day or two and they should root in it. The roots need to search for the water a bit. Just MHO. :D

Agreed, I've also found dryer is better, takes practce to find the right point. My latest batch were too wet, rooting slowly, I've had the wife watering per phone instructions, bless her, but kinda tough to do right.

Mr Burns

08-20-2008, 09:32 AM

Of what dark magic does one speak??? If they work I'll have one bought by the end of the day!

You can use these as a retro fit to standard Aero cloners ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4oAQh8kH94E

Mr Burns

08-20-2008, 09:38 AM

Or these little critters. I've seen these in action a couple of years ago and was impressed :)
He had them in a tray of water and they simply flooded the tray with mist, where you could hang the cuts ;) :)

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16981&stc=1&d=1219246663

Lilbud

08-20-2008, 09:48 AM

That unit looks the dogs danglies..... hmmm...

You know where one might Pur Chase?? The UK link on the retailer page doesn't mention them on their site!! (and they're wholesale anyway!) :D

Edit...

The mini foggers work great for upping your RH in veg, 2thumbs but if you put them in a Res, they'll raise the solution temp ;)

Foxy

08-20-2008, 10:25 AM

Thanks Burnarse... ;)

I have one of those little dangly shiny things and as LB says, they heat the water up loads... maybe ok in winter for use to feed a prop but not in summer.

But, those smoke machine-eey looking things look ace! :D

WANT ONE!! :)

Mr Burns

08-20-2008, 01:20 PM

Yep the small ones I did read heat up nutrient solution, but the larger are free standing and are pipe fed from what I've observed.
The only retail supplier I've found doesn't have them in their on-line catalogue, but hopefully someone can source one :shrug:

Foxy

08-20-2008, 01:22 PM

Rest assured, I will get one from somewhere.. ;)

Mr Burns

08-29-2008, 02:08 PM

10 days and our first candidate.

Cut stems 1, crushed stems 0.

TBO the cut stems seem to be developing root stumps far over the crushed stems, so I'm expecting explosive root growth from these the next 4 days.

Early days though so anything can happen ;)

Mr Burns

08-30-2008, 08:29 AM

11 days

Cut stems 3
Crushed stems 1

majestyk5

08-30-2008, 09:45 AM

seems question is being answered

Goddess

08-30-2008, 10:25 PM

This is an interesting experiment, Mr Burns, thanks.

Would you explain how you crushed the stems? I haven't read about anyone doing that before.

That's a good tip about being able to put two cuttings in one neoprene disc, hadn't thought of that. 2thumbs

Mr Burns

08-31-2008, 05:38 AM

12 days.

Cut stems 6
Crushed stems 3

Would you explain how you crushed the stems? I haven't read about anyone doing that before.
I place the loose blade over the cut stem and thumb it down. The before and after pictures are in this threads second post ;) Not obvious I must admit.

Mr Burns

09-01-2008, 05:13 AM

13 days.

Cut stems 7
Crushed stems 6

CylonBud

09-01-2008, 05:36 AM

13 days.

Cut stems 7
Crushed stems 6

Almost two weeks in and it's close to a draw. Crushed seems a late start but catches up in the end. Very intresting thread Mr Burns. Thanx for sharing with us. :D

majestyk5

09-01-2008, 11:22 AM

yep, at first i thought it would be cut be a landslide but now....
i would say tie

Mr Burns

09-02-2008, 06:35 AM

14 days:

Cut stems 14 (6 remaining)
Crushed stems 12 (8 remaining)

CylonBud

09-02-2008, 10:25 AM

Cut has an edge but for the most part doesn't seem to be a big difference between the two methods. :hmmmm:

majestyk5

09-02-2008, 03:57 PM

time seems to be the biggest factor

Mr Burns

09-03-2008, 03:56 AM

Day 15:

Cut stems 15
Crushed stems 13

Yesterday I added low dose of Nitrozyme @1ml so the first clones to show roots have something other to eat than what leaves they're hanging onto.

Seeing how the numbers are starting to slow down I'll give this another day. However if numbers take a sudden purge in the morning I'll carry on for another two days.

So the cuts take the edge with the early start and consistent lead :confused

Maybe do this again but take all the cuts at the internodes instead, which results could be handy if you're short of potential cuts on your mother plant?
Without using the nodes and if in a tight spot I reckon you could get 30% more cuts by going internode :shrug: It'd give you some twin colas of which one could be picked out if single colas are what you're after. If its for an LST grow then twin colas from the start gives the LST technique a head start :)

CylonBud

09-03-2008, 07:45 AM

Good show Mr Burns thanks for sharing this with us. It has been interesting to say the least. The internode idea sounds interesting as well. :D

majestyk5

09-03-2008, 09:13 AM

that nitrozyne, is that a concenterated alge?
if so i have a small bottle i have been useing and i think the plants like it.
how do you use yours?
i have just been useing it as a feed 0-4-4 in luie of poo(didnt have any good high p poo). but i will definitly keep it as an additive.( my bat poo has little k)
also it is very dark. and once added to my mix i can no longer read my ph tester. i use drops and cant get a read on it.
i was wondering if you knew if it dropped or raised ph?
i have been adding it last to a mix of big bloom and or high n bat poo ph'd to about 6.8 hoping not to throw it too outta whack.

Mr Burns

09-03-2008, 11:20 AM

Good show Mr Burns thanks for sharing this with us. It has been interesting to say the least. The internode idea sounds interesting as well. :D
There's more to come on the twin cola side of things Cy ;)

i was wondering if you knew if it dropped or raised ph?
i have been adding it last to a mix of big bloom and or high n bat poo ph'd to about 6.8 hoping not to throw it too outta whack.
I know nothing Maj :idea: but I do now ;)
Since I couldn't answer but have the monitors a donning of the white coat ensued, and I proceeded to the laboratory :cool1:
Using a Burns laboratory standard glass culture container, or empty jam jar to posh folk, I infused 1ml of Nitrozyme into 250ml of carefully prepared city tap water. The results were quite ground breaking. The water turned brown :eek:

Pics say it all Maj :gthumb: I hope that helps, the invoice is in the post :smoke:

Mr Burns

09-03-2008, 03:50 PM

Pics say it all Maj :gthumb: I hope that helps...

:slap: :slap: and :slap:

Not sure what it is with me this last few days :rolleyes: Every email or post I'm forgetting the pics :o

Here they are again. More like 3ml in 250ml this time but the numbers are there to see.

Hope this helps Maj and the second invoice is on its way :D

majestyk5

09-03-2008, 08:57 PM

mine is a different looking bottle but it does turn stuff like brown or magenta i would say really cuz i think the stuff in the bottle is purp.
so it dropped your reading 1 point?
not sure but will use like 20 ml per gal
i appreciate your help bro
after some surfing and looking at my bottle it is nitrozime not zyme.
also yours has a different npk than mine does.
though i very much thank you for your help