Hydro Question ??

[CezarCronic]

Well guys i have a question regarding running the water pump with nutrient for a small home made system with 2 x 15 litter pots fill with clay pellets and a small tank under for the water and now looking for some type of small pump to make a water circulation system.:idea:

My question is will be ok to run the pump 24 hours a day ??:confused:

running the pump 24/0 will benefit the plants or will damage them???:confused


I can set a timer to control hours but if i don't need to use a timer ? i will let the pump run 24/0:rolleyes:


One more question::hmmmm:

I know to run a hydro system i need to keep water temp around 18°C, this will be a bit hard in my veg room , temps run around 30°C during day hours .

I also know clay pellets are pretty good went temps are higher then normal.:sp ike:

Any suggestions to this problem with temps here where I'm from?:help2:

Appreciate all comments ....Thanks in advance :peaceman:

[tripps]

I think you can by a chiller for your reservoir, maybe an aquarium filter pump would work for you. I'm not a hydro guy (yet), but I think you just run a little bit 5 or 6 times a day, 24 hrs would be like overwatering, not good, I don't think. Others here can probably help you more.

[CezarCronic]

Thanks tripps , the fish tank filter is a good idea bro for pumping;) , have to figure out for water temp:rolleyes: , will look for something around to cool the water , i can put a timer for the water circulation to operate on and off .

[Mr Burns]

Cezar. If you're planning on using clay pellets as a medium you need to use the flood and drain technique. Clay pellets under a constant flow of water/nutrients will become semi-sodden and hamper the grow :2cents:

Tripps is on the button with running a pump for segmented parts of the day.
For 15 litre pots you really should be looking at flood and drain or aka 'ebb and flow'. Reason being, a large pot being pump fed from above will not successfully flood the whole root system and flush both stale air and salts away.
All is not lost Cezar. Use the pump to flood both pots by finding a tray deep enough to to bury the pots to near neck depth :)

[CezarCronic]

thanks Mr Burn for the advice , i can also use regular plastic buckets and open holes in the sides 2 inches from the baton ??

Or use a large plastic tank bit not to tall and place the pots inside and use another tank for the water and nutes and get 2 pumps one for filling the tank with the pots and the other to drain the tank and take the water to the reserve tank ??, if i do this one for how many hours the pots will be fill with the water and nutrients??

I found very good salt water pumps in a fish pets store they are about 150 dollars each , if i set the passive hydro type system how do i still need the chiller because i found some but very expensive man over 1000 dollars maybe less a smaller type , i will know tomorrow , also where do i place the chiller and water heater or if i do this type of float and drain system i don't need to manage water temps??

One more idea about a plastic bucket with one small hole in the lower part for draining all fluid after pump turns off and a big hole close to the neck of the container for water circulation ??.

[midwestbluntman]

When i was growing,I ran recirculating bubbling buckets.My pump ran 24/7,but the nutes never touched the clay pellets.water level maintained about and inch are so from the bottom of the netpots.I only ran clay pellets 2 or 3 times,then completely mediumless after that.

Temps,i would freeze 3 20 oz pop bottles,drop one in the rez in the morn,one in afternoon and one at night.Now the schedule could be different for you,I was running about 20 gallons in my rez.you'll just have to play with it to dial it in to your situation.


This was the veg setup
http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=225&stc=1&d=1132197439


and these was the flower room setup
http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=226&stc=1&d=1132197439

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=227&stc=1&d=1132197439

[Mr Burns]

Or use a large plastic tank bit not to tall and place the pots inside and use another tank for the water and nutes and get 2 pumps one for filling the tank with the pots and the other to drain the tank and take the water to the reserve tank ??,
No I'd use one pump for flood/flow and use gravity for the ebb/drain.
Get a skin fitting on the tray that floods and attach a hose to that draining back down to your res. This way would work really well for you Cezar cause I know you have space to work on benches. You could place the res underneath and the tray/pots on the bench.
IMO, most F&D systems are unnecessarily over complicated by design. Some like the system that uses the 'brain bucket' seem to be designed to maximise head space. However I only loose 10 inches height without using a single grommet or any of that complexity that comes with most F&D systems.

What I can do is build one for this hempy grow coming up. One recirculating, one run to waste and one F&D. I'll see what totes are available for the cab space and get back to you, but if I can get one to fit it should be an ideal way of understanding what I'm saying in action.

[CezarCronic]

Midwestbluntman thaks bro i got i good idea now with your pics to use some of those plastic containers for water tank and also will use 2 less deep to place the pots inside and have a float and drain system .


Bursy I'm getting the idea now , i will use to plastic containers about 10 inches deep to place 2 buckets inside with holes on the sides to drain in to the plastic container and this container will have a hose attachment to drain in to the tank by gravity .

Like you said i have the space so i build a bench to put the tank under , the pump I'm getting is a strong salt water fish tank pump and has a valve to attach 8 small hoses witch will be the ones to take nutes to the pots , also i can place up to 8 pots with this pump.

I'm planning to use a 64 litter reservoir tank ? will that be enough for 6 pots .


One important question if i use Coco with perlite will water temp still be an issue??

[Mr Burns]

Bursy I'm getting the idea now , i will use to plastic containers about 10 inches deep to place 2 buckets inside with holes on the sides to drain in to the plastic container and this container will have a hose attachment to drain in to the tank by gravity.
This sounds more like an 'automated' watering system than flood and drain. With F&D you flood the tray so that the nutrient enriched fluid pushes the stale air upwards out the top of the root zone. When it drains the retreating water level draws fresh air back down through the root zone.

I'm planning to use a 64 litter reservoir tank ? will that be enough for 6 pots .
The res size should be enough to completely flood the plants root zone without the pump running dry.
A point that should be made is you need an overflow that when the area flooded has reached maximum depth the excess fluid can run back to res un-inhibited. On the base of the tray that floods, where the pots sit, you should have a hole/holes big enough not to get blocked by particles but not so big that the fluid content drains back to res quicker than the pump can flood the tray to the desired level.

One trick with aiding the ebb of nutrients from the flooded tray is to locate the end of the delivery/flood pipe as close the the base of the flood tray as possible. When the pump times out the delivery pipe will become a syphon and remove a vast amount of fluid content from the flooded tray and back to the res via the idle pump ;) In fact it'll probably be good practice incase any medium escapes the pots and blocks what slow drainage you have in the tray ;)


One important question if i use Coco with perlite will water temp still be an issue??
Sorry Cezar I'm unaware of the heat issues :shrug: But I wouldn't mix perlite with Coco. Do people do this :shrug:
If I was using a good quality brand of Coco such as Canna I'd use it in its naked form and not upset the balance.

You're soooo lucky having that room buddy. I'd be so busy with my bench rigs experimenting and breeding I'd forget to eat :)

[midwestbluntman]

One important question if i use Coco with perlite will water temp still be an issue??

If your running a hydro,I wouldnt use perlite at all.It will eventually clog your pumps and drains.

[CB]

One important question if i use Coco with perlite will water temp still be an issue??

If your running a hydro,I wouldnt use perlite at all.It will eventually clog your pumps and drains.

i wouldn't either. expanded clay works a charm tho :)

[CezarCronic]

I will like to thanks every body for the help and comments2thumbs , appreciate guys.:peaceman:

Well i got the pump already a 750 gallons per hour salt water pump , also got the tank , rectangular 80 litters , looking for a tray and reductions to make the multi hose gang valve to have 15 out put little hoses to place inside the buckets .:idea:

Will use Clay pellets and trying to fine a use chiller , until i fine one, i will follow the Ice advice :p , i have 2 big freezers so i can have a large stock of Ice :D

I'm also building a rain forest like system to root clones with clay pellets , i will post pics went finish.:woohoo:

One question ?? How many empy like buckets can i place under 400w hps to veg the Plants or clones ??

I was thinking on 9 buckets to veg and 6 buckets to flow??:hmmmm:

Tomorrow will post pics of what i have bought till now.,,, Thanks again for all the help friends!!!:hippy:


C.C..:peace:

[midwestbluntman]

i have 2 big freezers so i can have a large stock of Ice

I bought a mini fridge with the intent to build a recirculating chiller out of.My plan was to drill 2 holes in the back of the fridge,run copper pipe in one,make several coils of pipe inside the freezer[or around the freezer was my idea],then exit the other hole looped threw my res bucket via another coil set up and joined with a pump.perhaps filling the pipe with antifreeze or equivalent.in theroy,the liquid would travel threw the coil in the freezer and chil then circulate threw the coil in the res transferring that chill to the nutes and back threw the freezer to start the process again.set the pump on a timer to regulate the nute temps.

[tripps]

Hey, Cez, I was thinking about what we were talking about in chat, I don't think you even need to worry about pushing the fill hoses down in the pots, even though you are filling from the top, the pots will really "fill" from the bottoms up, til the level reaches the overflow, so you will still really be filling from the bottom.

[CezarCronic]

Midwestblunt thanks again bro i was thinking on something a bit close to your suggestion ;) , also the store where i bought the pumps and some other stuff is tryinf to get me a use chiller for a very good prize i hope i can get that good deal , if i don't will look in to your advice man ..Thanks bro:)


Tripps Thanks man , yeah i remember the conversation bro i will place the hose on top , Got almost everything man , today got a plastic table and went you turn it up side down is a very good and big tray man:D, this will be a great tray to place all buckets on top with one hole to drain inside the tank reservoir, got all the reductions attachments for the pump to operate with a multi hose valve or gang valve with 10 outlets for small hoses :dance:.. all i need now is the buckets , I check some 22 litters buckets today they are very impressive , but I'm trying to get the regular 5 gallon buckets .

also build a rain forest type system to root clones with clay pellets , This way i can make clones faster and cleaner to place them in the hydro setup.
A small tank with a tray on top hook to the tank to be motion less , this tank is about 45 litter , has a small pump inside with a hose and a regulation nob to adjust water flow.
The tray on top will have 2 very small holes on the baton on the tray this small hole are tu drain out the tray went the pump stops , them will have a big hole about close to the top of the tray this way the tray will fill went the pump is working , then small pots or litte baskets inside the tray with clay pellets and clones inside , this tray will be fill to the neck or this small pots went pump is working a constant flow of nutrients will be available to the rooting clones , also this tray will be useful for growing small plants with large cups .

This are pics of my Hydro Rooting system the tank with the pump inside and tray on top .:D


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15992&stc=1&d=1214895889

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15993&stc=1&d=1214895889

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15994&stc=1&d=1214895889

[Mr Burns]

I bought a mini fridge with the intent to build a recirculating chiller out of.My plan was to drill 2 holes in the back of the fridge,run copper pipe in one,make several coils of pipe inside the freezer[or around the freezer was my idea],then exit the other hole looped threw my res bucket via another coil set up and joined with a pump.perhaps filling the pipe with antifreeze or equivalent.in theroy,the liquid would travel threw the coil in the freezer and chil then circulate threw the coil in the res transferring that chill to the nutes and back threw the freezer to start the process again.set the pump on a timer to regulate the nute temps.

That's a bloody good idea. As long as any joint wasn't in or near the res ;) I think this is a superb idea. Far better than having a pump pushing the nutes through a fridge or freezer. Pumps only heat the nutes up :2cents:

[CezarCronic]

That's a bloody good idea. As long as any joint wasn't in or near the res I think this is a superb idea. Far better than having a pump pushing the nutes through a fridge or freezer. Pumps only heat the nutes up

i AGREED Burnsy its a very good idea is such a good idea that I'm buying a small use freezer and will place inside a roll of coper tube the one use in big air conditioner units and like Midwest suggest will open 2 holes on the side and from the water tank a plastic hose with a under water pump like the one i bought ( fish tank pump ) and pump the water to the coper output this way the pump is always cool inside the tank,,,them this roll of coper tube will be thicker to get more water inside on the coil of coper tube',,, them to take the cool water to the tank I'm thinking on using the same type of coper tube but thiner to hold back the water a bit more inside the freezer and insulate this coper line with the same stuff use in air conditioners to keep the water cool and to the reservoir tank.

also i can place 2 more rolls inside the freezer this way i can have 3 tanks cooling with the same freezer or should we said chillers:D

If by any chance the water gets to cold i can do 2 thins , one i can reduce the freezer cold or buy a fish tank water heater witch are very cheap too ;)

Well what do you guys think of my way of setting up this freezer triple chiller , all thanks to the good advice from MIDWESTBLUNTMAN:peaceman: and Cylon Bud .. Thanks a lot guys 2thumbs:peace:

[Mr Burns]

The only thing I'd look at, and this is a personal thing......

Having an external pump rather than a submersed pump. The heat generated from a submersed pump would be detrimental to the cooling effect, IMO. I doubt the chiller would ever fight against the heat of the pump, but the imbalance is there.
Why not look at self cooling external pumps such as what can be used as waste pumps on domestic washing machines? Country dependant maybe :shrug:

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16107&stc=1&d=1215339671


If by any chance the water gets to cold i can do 2 thins , one i can reduce the freezer cold or buy a fish tank water heater witch are very cheap.

Again this is personal Cezar, but I'd source a submersible thermo coupling and tag that to the fridge/freezers wiring, removing the original thermo coupling/thermostat. I'm unsure how quick a space would cool from a higher temperature than designed but sudden changes in temps with hydro isn't a good thing anyway.

Maybe that's going too far with wiring etc but its what I would look into being the fugg abouter that I am :)

[CezarCronic]

Burnsy i like your suggestion even more man , I 'll look for a washing machine pump those i can fine cheap too.

The submersible thermostat is a brilliant Idea ;) I 'm thinking on the ones from fish tanks water heaters and see how can i remove 't:hmmmm: and wire 't to the freezer:D

This will be a hell of an invention if works fine guys ..I love 't :peaceman:

[midwestbluntman]

post pix man,just curious to see it in action.

[CezarCronic]

Well guys I'm going fast and forward with My Hydro Setup design with the help of all members the has give opinions for this adventure .

Was thinking on posting on Grow room setup and dissing but i start this treat and everyone in posting here so let me update you all .

Ok got a rectangular backyard plastic table ( pic ) , i remove the legs and place 't upside down to use 't as a big tray with a hole to drain in to the rectangular tank , this tray will be on a bench about the same size of the reservoir Tank a plastic rectangular outdoor pot ( pic )

1 x salt water fish tank pump 750 gallons per hour( pic ) with plastic hose attach + one Y coper connection to split in 2 smaller hoses attach to the 2 gang valves with 5 smaller hoses outputs ( pic )

This smaller hoses will be inside the 22 litter buckets ( pic ) , this buckets will have a over float drain close to the neck and one very small hole near the baton on the side on the bucket to drain out went pump turns off, this buckets will be on top of the table tray as showing in Pic., also i have 10 output hoses to use in other pots or buckets that i can place in the same tray:D

Well all this to function correct in my part of the planet living areas i need a chiller , temps here are extreme hot :rolleyes: so to fix this handicap and not spend lots of money in a chiller I'm using Midwestbluntman idea with Mr Burns help and ideas on putting this one to function as close to a real chiller.

A washing machine electric water pump .( pic )

1 x small freezer ( haven't purchase yet )

2 x roll of 3/4 inch coper tubes 15 meter long each . ( haven't purchase yet ) Would 15 meter be long enough??


This rolls of coper will be inside the freezer in a spiral coil way and will open 2 holes to place both ends of the tubes , this tubes will have one intake hose attach from the washing machine pump to take the water inside the freezer and the coper coil to cool and later from this coper coil to another coper tube but this one smaller and insulated with air conditioner protected foam made for this coper tubes and to the reservoir tank. ( hope this works )

One question?? i can get the coper tube 1/8 thicker or 7/8 .. do you guys think i need to use the 7/8 instead of the 3/4...??



Well since we can only post 5 pics will post again the others :D



http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16156&stc=1&d=1215589784

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16157&stc=1&d=1215589784

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16158&stc=1&d=1215589784

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16159&stc=1&d=1215589784

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16160&stc=1&d=1215589784

[CezarCronic]

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16161&stc=1&d=1215589974

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=16162&stc=1&d=1215589974

[larfin1]

Hi CezarCronic, i love the idea of a washing machine pump, that rocks in my opinion. Now to your copper pipe in the freezer. i would think for flow, so you don't burn your pump out you would need the 3/4 , if not one inch, however not to sure how much cooling you will achieve as in refrigeration they tend to use the smaller piping if i am not mistaken.
It may be a case of trial and error .

[tripps]

Like larf said, it might be trial and error. I'm thinking 3/4 might be fine, I don't know if I'm saying this clearly, but smaller sizes might work better on the copper tubing, because there is more copper/water ratio, a bigger line might not have as much surface area/water volume, if you knew the right engineering formulas you could probably calculate it, but I think it would be a pretty complex thing to calculate. Just something I was thinking.

[midwestbluntman]

I tend to agree with tripps,I think 1/4 would be the best.you can get alot more coils in a small area with the smaller tubing.the more coils ya got the colder the water will get on each pass threw the freezer.plus the smaller the tubing,would take less volume of water to acheive the same goal.we have used the term water thru out this thread referring to the fluid in the system,but for real water prolly isnt a good idea.you'll want some thing more resistant to freezing,like vodica,or some thing along those lines.

[larfin1]

thanks midwestbluntman/tripps for posting what i meant to so eloquently.:D

re water freezing i dont think it would if it were moving constantly and the pipe diameter was sufficient, but the more i think of it yeh it probably could/would.:eek:

[Mr Burns]

It would guys. I've frozen 4inch pipes with moving water to install valves and branches. You're probably asking why not switch the water supply off, but shutting down a local government property mid winter isn't an option. Not only would the suits start kicking off that their radiator is down, there is also a risk of natural pipe freeze under the suspended concrete floors.

Go with what Westy said. Anti freeze.

[CylonBud]

Hopefully you installed local shutoff valves when you had the chance Mr Burns. I do every time one of my apartments need plumbing work if they don't already have them. :D

[Mr Burns]

Hopefully you installed local shutoff valves when you had the chance Mr Burns. I do every time one of my apartments need plumbing work if they don't already have them. :D
Thing is, when I was into big bore it was installed before I were born, and I'm thinking retirement ;)
I'm sure most plumbers have been installing valves for a few years domestically. It should be trade standard :2cents:

I hate plumbing :)

[larfin1]

[QUOTE=CylonBud;44977]

I hate plumbing :)


so do i 6 years of it was enough for me.:D

[tripps]

A former landlord, I became an expert plumber. A carpenter by trade, the problem was that plumbing problems always had to be fixed now, so carpentry just kept getting pushed further down the list.

[CylonBud]

[QUOTE=CylonBud;44977]

I hate plumbing :)


so do i 6 years of it was enough for me.:D


Indeed so do I. :mad:

[Dawg]

only 1 thing worse than plumbing is sheetrocking. ugh....between the two i don't know which one is worse. :p

[Mr Burns]

only 1 thing worse than plumbing is sheetrocking. ugh....between the two i don't know which one is worse. :p
Also, anything to do with sandpaper and I'm off sick :pass:

[majestyk5]

i've done it all in sheetrock but i was a taper/asst foreman.
did my share of houses and what not plus repair, touch up of the other crews.

[CezarCronic]

I don't mind plumbing , carpentering , sanding , dry wall ,painting, laying concrete but one thing i don't like is roofing :p

i like electricity and carpentering a lot:cool:

[tripps]

, touch up of the other crews.

One of the single worst declines in the construction industry, finishing has become so bad that I sometimes have to hire another company to come in and fix what the first company did, when it becomes apparent that they aren't capable of making it right. I know a guy that does nothing but that, travels the NE US, fixing others work. LOL

Wow, I just realized this is poor Cezar's hydro thread, how'd we get so far off topic? :rotf:

[majestyk5]

you said it tripps.
every taper that has worked for us has had some sort of problem. if he wasnt chasing a high it was a skirt. most of them were hard core alkies. my self included in there.
finishers get grief for stuff thats not their fault, imho. if the hangers dont do their jod, which includes getting the roughers to fix something or fixing it them selves, the taper can only do so much.
if you dont knock that stud in line or put a nailer in to catch the corner of the board, my tape cant fix that, ya know. not for long anyway.

[CylonBud]

Hows the Hydro coming Cezar?:D

[CezarCronic]

Cylon I{m in the process of buying a freezer , still looking for a cheap chiller too but nothing comes up , on the freezer comments about the coper line frozen that will be possible in cooler places but here temps are in the 90s almost all year round and inside my veg room they get over 33°C in day hours with lamps on , also freezer has a thermostat to reduce cold this will not allow the coper pipe to froze .

Also if I'm to use anti freeze to circulate inside the coper tube then i have to make a complete separate tank with the antifreeze and run the coper tube in a spiral coil inside the reservoir tank and another inside the freezer , this will complicate thins a bit and i don't think this way will cool the water enough because temps are to extreme .

Maybe i can place the anti freeze in a tank inside the freezer and run the coper tube to the reservoir tank but i have to figure if this will work , i think running the nutrients inside the freezer will cool the water better for my conditions in very hot temps, ..... I'm thinking very hard in to it :hmmmm:

[CB]

I'm thinking very hard in to it

I bet you are:) alot of good info to pounder on indeed....

when i did hydro i used frozen pop bottles of water to chill my rez...


:pass:

[midwestbluntman]

when i did hydro i used frozen pop bottles of water to chill my rez...

Thats the easiest way to go about it for real.being in the region CC is in,he would have to change them out prolly 3 or 4 times a day.


Maybe i can place the anti freeze in a tank inside the freezer and run the coper tube to the reservoir tank but i have to figure if this will work

this idea is a great plan and would work well.I didnt have room in the mini fridge to do it this way.you can place the anti freeze in a tank inside the freezer with a submersable pump and run the coper tube to the reservoir tank coil then back out of tank into the tank in the freezer.you'd only need the one coil then;it would operate just like a recirculation system you'd build for your hydro buckets.you would have to install a thermostat in the nute tank to trip the chiller pump,or generalize with a timmer.kicking on more often while lights on then it does when lights out.

[CylonBud]

You could fill the bottles with saltwater or antifreeze to get them colder and then they wouldn't have to be changed as often. Saltwater freezes at 24 degrees F and antifreeze/mixed can go to around -30 degrees F. :D