Official CID guide (outdoor growing structure)

[cidium]

Here is the official CID public service brochure on residential outdoor single structure construction. It took me many weeks to compile this information so I hope it helps.

This building plan has been designed and researched to help homeowners design and construct an outdoor building for the purpose of growing plants. The land site would be owned or leased under the idea it would be used for the purpose of construction an out building. The site should be of size which would allow for construction away from large trees and fence lines. Slopping grade would not be desirable if the grade was beyond 12/6. A clear and free southern exposure is the most important aspect to the finished construction - northern hemisphere.

Breaking ground should begin by first marking off the rough edges to the ground pit. Spray paint or garden stakes will provide a good marker for the digging. A rental of a small bobcat type tractor for the majority of this digging. Using the front bucket all the grass needs to be scarfed and saved for backfilling at the end of construction. Next dig the 25x20 hole with slopping edges, approx. 45 degrees, to a depth of 5 feet. All soil will need to saved for backfilling later so pile it in a corner somewhere. Next dig the 12x12 hole to a depth of 5 feet for a finish depth of 10'. With a spade shovel clean up the loose roots and edges of the pit.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1050&stc=1&d=1135755746

[cidium]

After the rough hole has been excavated we can start working on the drainage system. There will need to be a hole the size of a 55 gallon barrel dug by hand in the entrance corner of the layout. The drainage system is a two part system, the first being made of a double barrel allowing the field drain to dump into. There is a spillway at the top of the first barrel that leads into the second barrel. The second barrel will house the electric pump and output line. The first barrel assembly is basically a cylinder, no bottom, with a reusable top. Half of this first stage will have gravel that will act as a dry well on light drainage. The spillway connecting the second barrel will allow excesses water that can't drain into the soil to fill the second barrel. The water entering the second barrel is mainly free of heavy debris as not to clog the electric pump.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1054&stc=1&d=1135770868

[cidium]

The foundation of the build will be constructed on 9 round piers. Using a pre-formed cardboard cylinder, 10" dia., pour concrete approx. 6' below finished grade. Make sure to have 18" of concrete in undisturbed soil. Adding re-bar at this point is optional but for the cost a few rings of ½" bar added to the form it is well worth the money and time. Add into poured concrete 4x6 metal post brackets and finish trowel. Once the concrete has set start to back fill around drainage and well barrels with crushed gravel, have a bed of 12" below pipes and 6" above pipes.

Till now everyone that has asked what you are doing has been told, “ I am digging a swimming pool”. Well after adding the piers it will become obvious you are not build a pool. So in cases where you are asked what you are building just reply with, I ran low on money so this project is now becoming a shed.

What are the reasons for constructing this semi-underground building? The earth at a certain depth is a constant temperature, dependant on the region. An average would be 40-45 degrees approx. at 9 feet below surface. The ground breaking was at a depth of 10 feet which would be within the constant temperature range. The bed of gravel in which the lower drainage is placed acts as a drain field and a capacitor for storing ground temperatures. The next phase of the construction will include the passive heat exchanger that is the key to cooling the structure. There are other reasons for this type of structure that will be discussed later.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1058&stc=1&d=1135807624

Links to soil temps
http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~map/weather/barometer/soil_temperature_profile.html

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/may96/827252528.Es.r.html

[cidium]

Now we can install the heat exchanger system. For this we will be using 3" PVC drainage pipe. Starting on the west there will 2 inlets, one right and one left. The pipe will travel down to a level of river rock and snake back and forth until we end mid point in the room, one south and one north. There should be a stub on both inlets and outlets for connecting to later.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1062&stc=1&d=1135833906

[CB]

Next dig the 12x12 hole to a depth of 5 feet for a finish depth of 10'. With a spade shovel clean up the loose roots and edges of the pit.

damn bro i got tired just reading that

thats one hell of a hole to dig :eek:

seems grow'n inside the house might be a bit cheaper :confused

[cidium]

After assembling the heat exchanger and covering with the river rock now we can install the footer drain. This drain is perforated pipe, 4", running the perimeter of the footer and spilling into the first barrel well. Last, cover this drain with river rock to grade with the base of the metal 4x6 post brackets installed in the concrete piers. This completes the drainage and foundation phase of the construction. Estimated cost - tractor rental and materials $1200.00

Hey CB,

First I want to say thanks for sharing an interest in this project. As to the cost and labor to complete this structure, it is purely an investment. This is a long term structure so it would be wise to undergo this project on property either owned or long term leased. There are some obvious advantages to haveing an outbuilding for the sole purpose of growing. As this journal progresses I will try to cover all if not most the benefits.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1066&stc=1&d=1135849977

[Cranky]

well i just think that haveing a normal building with normal drainage(say one 6 inch drain in the centre of the room with the floor running into it) and have all ya pipeing above ground and maybe box them in.this way at least you would have access to them if there was a leak.

just thought i'd point out that you should always put down a dpc membrain before laying concrete.it stops damp coming through;)


cranky

[Dibbz]

what the hell...looks like southpark!!!

I see the jist of it like nice ideas but i agree with CB you might as well scale down the hydro setup and come indoors...

If i were outdoor growing yeah i would dig the patch but wouldnt go to the extemes of fucking up nature to install an outdoor hydro setup!!

But i would maybe consider using ure methods or similar in a poly-tunnel or large greenhouse!2thumbs

[Cranky]

full on like

http://satobs.org/image/sts-26-1.jpg

cranky

[Mr Burns]

CID.
If you have that much land, can't I come and live with you?

[cidium]

With the drainage and foundation done, construction on the structure can start. The base of the building will sit on 4x6 pressure treated lumber. Be sure to bold all metal brackets to the lumber. The floor is framed from 2x6 pressure treated lumber with a 2x12 skirt around the beam base. Stainless nails or screws should be used to fasten the floor sub-structure. The vapor barrier for the dead air space is made from Tyvek house wrap, 10'x100' roll. Roll out the Tyvek and allow it to hang over the sides of the base, this will cover the exsposed lumber. Now add R-21 to the floor pushing the insulation in between the floor joist. Once the insulation has been fitted use a stapler, hammer type, to finish place the Tyvek to the joist top. The Tyvek has a three fold purpose - first it makes a barrier between the insulation and gravel base. It holds the insulation in place without sagging and it creates a tight lock between the interior and gravel base. The floor deck is made from 3/4" pressure treated tongue and groove plywood. Apply a good latex caulking to all the seams on the plywood. Screws would be best for the floor fastener.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1074&stc=1&d=1135924167

[cidium]

Now would be a good time to install the vent for the air space under the floor. Using a 4" plastic pipe we can run from the lower air space up to above grade. This vent has a dual purpose, first it draws moist air from under the flooring joist to the surface and it allows for a failsafe pumping line if the main electric pump in the well fails. Construction of the walls is from 2x6x8 pressure treated lumber, framing studs should be on 16" centers. With the wall framing done, laying face up on the deck, we can skin with ½" CDX plywood. Fasteners should be either stainless screws or nails. Now we can skin the wall with a concrete board, a ½" concrete board product like Durarock would be fine for this application. Tape all seams and cover with a waterproofing product. This is where one would need help rasing the walls, raise and place the wall securing with galvanized lag bolts into the 4x6 beam. Additional screws in the floor plate would be recommended, once again stainless.

With all four walls raised and in place we can see the final footprint and size of the structure. The base of this structure is 10x10 with a ceiling height of 8 feet at the walls. The man door opening is a standard 36" door.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1082&stc=1&d=1135927895

[cidium]

I want to cover a few ideas, this setup isn’t for a hobbyist type grower. Everything going into this project is purely an investment and will return any or all investment in the first year of operation. This isn’t an in-ground hydro setup, rather this is an earth type build and all sub-structure piping is for drainage and the heat exchanger. As this type of build would fail if the ground water was to raise into the working space. Earth structures are excellent for insulation and provide constant temperature year round. There are other reasons for this type of construction that I will cover later.

Hey Burnsy, glad to see you made it. You asked me if I was going to build that crazy room I designed on your thread....well yes but this would be the building to go with it. On the space thing, hell yeah man you can live here with me as long as you bring those nuggets you grow with you. The standard lot size here is 50'x100', an average house will take about 50'x50' of that lot. So it would be possible to build this on the smallest lot here. My thinking on this would be, this type of investment would be done on a lot semi-secluded and somewhat wooded.

[cidium]

With the wall framing and sheeting done we can wrap the house with the Tyvek moisture plastic. The wrap should cover from corner to corner and from wall top to gravel. If possible the wrap should be in one piece, less seems the better. To secure the walls at the base there should be a 2x4x10 added to the bottom plate of the back wall to lock all three corners from shifting in the future. Now would be a good time to place the output for the sump pump, using 1/1/2" PVC pipe run from the second barrel up to grade and turn 90 degrees, then out 20 feet past the wall.

Using railroad landscape ties construct a retaining wall on the front of the structure. In addition to the wall we are going to need an entrance into the build so use the same type tie to construct a stairway. Backfill the front to existing grade, slope as needed. On the rear of the building we are going to need a day cellar for batteries, generator and other needs. The dimensions of this should be approx. 8 feet long, 4 feet wide and 3 feet deep. Using the railroad ties bring the box enclosure up to existing grade. A note on securing tie - use a heavy duty drill and ½" x18" drill bit to drill connecting hole in the ties. Use ½" rebar as nails to connect the ties as you layer them. Same method can be used to secure single ties into the ground, just cut the rebar longer for ground contact. With all the ties in place we can now backfill to grade. There should be a layer of river rock between the Tyvek and backfill soil, so when backfilling give approx. 12" of river rock and then soil.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1088&stc=1&d=1135943715

[cidium]

This is the point where this project can take to different directions. One would be grid supplied power for all the growing needs or off the grid for a self-contained system. In this example we will run a supply line from the main panel box for backup only and continue with the self-contained power option. The other mater of concern at this point would be water, if the location is too far away from city or local water then a well would have to be drilled. In this example we are going to pull water from the local city running a supply line from either the yard or house.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1090&stc=1&d=1135944994

[cidium]

Here we have a conceptual rendering of the finished landscape and roof framing. The roof framing is made from 2x10 lumber with flat brackets at all intersections. The roof pitch is at 5/12 which is roughly 35 degrees.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1112&stc=1&d=1136009674

[CB]

The roof framing is made from 2x10 lumber

that seems abit overkill to me

2x4 lumber will work the same for the roof joist with no lose of strenth

could save a couple hundred bucks as well:D

[cidium]

Yeah I know CB most of the time I go over the top. There are couple of reasons why I went with bigger sticks, the R-30 needed to line the roof needed to be in a 2x10. Although there is blown in, the R-30 in the roof is going to help keep the attic space insulated and hold the blown in. Blown in insulation is good for bulk. There needs to be as much insulation in the top air space to maintain temps in the growing area but also help hide from IR. In addition the solar panels are going on the south facing roof. The joists need to be bulky since they are on 2 foot centers. There needs to be ½" plywood on the topside of the ceiling joist to hold the loose bulk insulation. On the flat roof there are going to be (6) 13" sundome light tubes. The tubes pass through the insulation and light the lower room. All this is real easy to do now that the walls are about 36".

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1134&stc=1&d=1136108190

[cidium]

Here is a look at the fitted day cellar. There is a 6kw electric start generator with panel box for all the electronics that run the lights, solar, generator and 110v circuits. There would be a storage shelf for all the ballast so excess heat from ballast is vented outside the main room. Below the ballasts is the 110v small chest freezer for A/c. And there is going to be a huge rack of batteries as this solar system is based on a 3200 watt lighting circuit.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1140&stc=1&d=1136111722

[Mr Burns]

CID. I get part way through and end up on another planet. This is gonna take a few tokes and no background music for me to get my head round.

You gonna go for it some day? When can I move in? I'll bring the nugs just let one pitch thy tent!

[cidium]

Hey Burnsy,

Yeah this is a bit over-the-top but I tend to be that way. If I had the cash and land this would be my first project!

Here’s a look at the finished building with the solar panels. The solar system has a max charging capacity of 1.9kw. The total power usage for this build, (lights on) is estimated 3.2kw. To compensate for the wattage difference the battery system for the solar panels will be doubled to bring the total battery capacity to 3.8kw. Batteries will have DC backup from a 6kw propane generator and Ac/Dc convertor.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1216&stc=1&d=1136432364

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1217&stc=1&d=1136442266

[cidium]

Lets debrief the final details to the outside of the structure. Finish the exterior siding with a composite type siding like Hardi plank, this type of siding has good insulation values and will help to block IR. The dormers are sided with cedar 4" shingles for more of a rustic look and sealed with a clear water based sealer for UV protection. The roofing is a 40 year composition type material, black to dark grey for winter heat abortion.

The peak on the day cellar has vented ridges on both sides to allow warm air flow from the lower battery/generator room to raise and exit. On the end of the day cellar dormer is (2) ladder catches for securing an extension ladder. Access to the top of the structure is for cleaning of sundomes and solar panels. The propane tanks are portable so as not to have unwanted people around the structure. The tanks should be of the size that is easy to transport for filling but allow the system to run for several days on a single tank. There is a double door on the day cellar for easy removable and installation of equipment. The door on the cellar is under standard height.

The solar panels sit atop a framing system that is locked into the main roof with common roofing jacks. These jacks are the supports for planking that roofers use to work on steep roof lines. These jacks come in many fixed ratios and even come in an adjustable type. If not clear, the roofing is under the solar panels, this should make the structure water tight. One nice feature to having this build under grade is cleaning of the solar panels. With and extension rod and brush head one could clean the panels fairly easy. All the solar panel are secured to the ground with concrete piers and brackets.

Calculating the cost to run the propane generator depends on many factors such as cloud cover, winter VS. summer with heating and cooling, cost of propane and light hours of operation. An average for my area to run the generator to offset batteries and other needs is about $10.00 per day. This is where there is some controversy, the cost to run this building is above the cost to be on the grid. Although supplied power is nice to have the utility has its drawbacks, excessive usage leads to problems. One benefit to being off the grid is this structure can now supply power for your housing needs. Assuming this was constructed on the same property as you main residence this can be connected to the house supply via the panel box which was run from the house for grid power. In times of need this system can be switched to run the needs of your family rather than used for growing.

I mentioned that this structure with proper growing could retain its value in the first year. Holding true, then this is not only the perfect structure to expand your green thumb but also gives you the option after a few years to convert to solar power in the future as world power needs move into greener fields.

Estimated cost building and off the grid $35,000 usd
I should mention this is estimated with no labor costs assuming construction is not contracted.

[Cranky]

lmao
id rather have the swimming pool.you would have to smoke one hell of an amount of weed for it to cover itself?

what ever floats ya boat though.

cranky

[CB]

Estimated cost building and off the grid $35,000 usd
I should mention this is estimated with no labor costs assuming construction is not contracted.

damn :eek:

[cidium]

would you guys like to see my plans for the inside?

[midwestbluntman]

would you guys like to see my plans for the inside?


I would Cid,The outbuilding is well beyond my means,but the actual grow space itself is a diffrent story.I have some pretty elabrite plans for my grow space upon completion of the shed,[shed's total est. build cost will be around $1,000 usd].From the looks of your plans id have to live in the damn thing to make it worth while.Have ya started construction yet?Id love to see that baby come to life.

[gorilla]

I can't believe you're going to go through ( or would even dream about ) all of this trouble, to grow just like you would indoors! o_O! It's like you're building a house, for your weed. Completely awesome, but somewhat ludicrous. Why not let the sun take over instead of your lights?

BTW. If you did all of this rendering yourself, You did a mighty fine job brother. Not to mention of all the planning and searching for information. I give you mighty props for that much. I think i'm gonna take a look back and read through this again, to maybe figure out what in the hell it offers as compared to any other.. cheaper setup. Want to fill me in anyway?

Also BTW, :P, what do those sun domes do?

[Cranky]

BTW. If you did all of this rendering yourself, You did a mighty fine job brother.

not sure on that one but im slightly pissed off with the fact hes used my tractor(first pic page 1) without even asking me:D

cranky

[Pistol Pete]

Ooops , Sorry