10 x 2.5 litre bubblers.

[Mr Burns]

The buckets are on their way so all I need is all the equipment to go with it. The buckets are white so any links to suppliers of foil to line the buckets would be usefull.
If anyones got the time for a quick PPM, PH 'blah de blah' I'd appreciate it too. You know, the laymans version.
Also, 2.5 litre is the full bucket volume so I'll be using less than this no? How bigger nute tank should I have 'as a minimum' and is an intermediate flood chamber the way to go?

[CB]

If anyones got the time for a quick PPM, PH 'blah de blah' I'd appreciate it too. You know, the laymans version.


say burnsy i will tell you how i do it

once my plant roots have hit the water and grow a couple of inches I add nutes, a small amount say around 300 ppm and adjust ph to 6ish then check every 24 hours to see if the plant is feed'n so say

day 1 ppm is 300
day 2 ppm is 250 ....plant ate 50 so it needs more food.....bump ppm to 350
day 3 ppm is 350
day 4 ppm is 300.....bump up to 400
day 5 ppm is 350.....bump up to 450

ect.ect ect.

perfect ph in hydro is 5.8 but if you look at the nute uptake range compared to ph you will see a drift in ph will allow you a bit of control on what the plant gets;)

i let mine go from 5.5ish to 6.5ish

never use ph up and down at the same time and if you over ph dump and start over

sooner or later in the grow you will find your sweet spot (no not your girlies) and everthing will stable out with very little adjustment needed for the rest of the grow


my sweet spot usally happens 2 weeks into flower so i kind of time my getaways around that as i know i can leave for 3-4 days and not worry

if ya need more info or help let me know.....think i have done like 7 hydro grows and have never lost or burned a plant.....

[Mr Burns]

I understand the Math CB but I don't understand why you increase the feed level each time. Won't you end up with a huge PPM or does it level out?
What you describe looks like introducing the nutes but where does it stop? Does this figure depend on your total wet capacity or is it a percentage which would be across the board for all different capacities?
Did I put that right? :rolleyes:

I'm gussing you use 1 type of nute. Or at least it is possible to have one nutrient per cycle? This is what you raise the PPM food with? Then theres the PH which speaks for itself with up & down bottles.

What else is there to watch or meter? I can buy a book if this is gonna be easier Cheap?

[CB]

I'm a bit stoned out the mo but gonna answer any how :eek:

but I don't understand why you increase the feed level each time. Won't you end up with a huge PPM or does it level out? ?

what we are doing is try'n to keep the h2o and nute level uptake the same.....so if the plant ate 50 ppm's then it was 50 to low to start with so we give it back the 50 it ate and the 50 it wanted sooner or later all this will level out (sweet spot) the plant will be at max and more ppms will just burn it


What you describe looks like introducing the nutes but where does it stop? Does this figure depend on your total wet capacity or is it a percentage which would be across the board for all different capacities?
Did I put that right? :rolleyes:

the plant will tell you when to stop increase'n the nutes then flush last week of flower


I'm gussing you use 1 type of nute. Or at least it is possible to have one nutrient per cycle? This is what you raise the PPM food with? Then theres the PH which speaks for itself with up & down bottles.

What else is there to watch or meter? I can buy a book if this is gonna be easier Cheap?

i use foxfarms growbig for veg and bigbloom & tigerbloom 2 to 1 for flower

and use your nutes raise the ppm's

alot of people watch there res temps but i have never bothered check'n mine:rolleyes:

no need for a book M8 as i think you can get all the help ya need right here as we do have a few hydro growers here will'n to share for free 2thumbs

fire away :D

[Mr Burns]

CB.
Your top dog. Thanks for this offer of help 'me ole mucker' 2thumbs
I got that 100%. The ppm bit was somewhere understood but alls clear now. I didn't connect the progressive uptake with the initial water only part. 2thumbs
The nutes I'm sorted with.
The PH 'up n down' fluid I'll look into.
With 10 buckets I'll need to look at airstones. 1 for each bucket or 1 huge one in the res tank? Or both?
A heater and stat for the tank is no problem. That can be sorted easily.
As a plumber I'm guessing I get 1 overated pump for the total litreage of nutes and get as quieter one as possible for stealth. Is there a math figure I need to take into account as far as exchanging and circulating the nutes? Are the buckets set up 'inline'? two sets of 5 or 5 sets of two etc etc. Is the pump timed or does it circulate 24/7?
Sticky foil to light-proof the buckets.
Hose and pipe. That's something I can take advice on. Is it larger the better? Light proof I guess but is there any fault in going too large?
Plant medium for the pots. Clay pebbles? Rockwool? Is it personal preference?

It may seem a lot of questions but If I can get an idea of what's needed I can buy it now and start constructing over the xmas period.

Thanks Cheap

[midwestbluntman]

Burnsy
I went out and took a bunch of pix of my setup,to give ya an idea of what i have and how it works.


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=866&stc=1&d=1134962833



pic 1
is a shot of the res and feed manifold you can also see on the wall beside the res is a heater for the res.


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=867&stc=1&d=1134962833


pic 2 is a shot inside the res,you can see on both sides the return lines.I run 2 one for each bubbler, but most run 1 for all the bubblers in a series with tee fittings.The size of these returns is user preffreance,as long as your returns are larger than your feed then you should be ok.Im running 3/8 feed line and 5/8 returns.you can also see my pump,it is a bit small for this application thus justifying the feed manifold.


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=868&stc=1&d=1134962833


pic 3 is a shot of the return comming into the side of the res,im using 5/8 gardenhose here with some pvc fittings.


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=869&stc=1&d=1134962833


pic 4 is the feed manifold lookin inside you can see the 2 feed lines and the 1 pump line.on the side is a thermometer just so i can monitor my temp lose between the res and manifold later you'll see thermometers on the bubblers as well for the same purpose.these are not necasary just my undying want to know everything thats going on.I can measure the temp changes at all levels this way,which if anyone is interested there is only a couple degree diffrence in all three places.because my pump isnt strong enough to supply the bubblers equally on its own ive built this manifold as a transfer station.nutes are pumped in and gravity takes them to the bubblers.




http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=870&stc=1&d=1134962833


pic 5 is the bubbler you can see the return line comming out of the side.the location of your return is again user preffrence.This is the bubbler that in my journal i speak of the roots drawing into the return lines and causing it to not flow correctly.This is also causing the water levels between the two to be diffrent.I have a cure in mind but we will touch on that in the journal.



http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=871&stc=1&d=1134962833


pic 6 is a shot of the top of the bubbler,you can see the feed line dumping into the top of it,and my airpump which is rated for a 60 gal fish tank 2 stones per bubbler.


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=872&stc=1&d=1134962833


pic 7 is the other bubbler top.in this pic you could have seen the mediumless neoprene disc if it hadnt fallen threw the top of the bubbler,damnit that wasnt suppose to be like that but to late now.When i put the plants under the screen the bending of the plant was a bit much for the collar to stay in place.medium is also user preffrence,my first grows was with clay pebbles in net pots,but the same thing happened to them as the neoprene.the bend was to much for it also only diffrence is this way i dont have to fish the pebbles out of my tanks.I think with some pre flower training this can be avoided.

This is basically a waterfarm type setup with the exception of the pump.The pump is forcing possitive recirculation,whereasThe water farm consists of a controller[res] and a series of buckets linked together with a hose and tee fittings connecting them all together without the pump.the water level in the controller will be the level the water is in all your buckets.The advantages ive found with possitive recirculation is that all your bubblers will maintain the same ppm's and ph,where as the WF would slightly vary from bucket to bucket.and also for irration of the nutes.The disadvantage of this is if one plant gets diseased then the whole show has it.one plant dont suffer they all do.

[Mr Burns]

Midwest, your a star. I understand what you have and the pics are an added bonus. The manifold you're using can be taken out of the equasion if you had a stronger pump, right. Then you'd have a circulating flow?

I just wanna pass these things up as I'm struck for time, so heres a few questions that I have researched, but I'm getting conflicting data. If anyone has the bumph to point me in the right direction for the answers I'd appreciate it.

Right. Today I made headway with gear, I now have 10 x 20 litre buckets to use so I can disregard the 10 litre ones. I have also bought as bigger reserve tank as I can fit in the space I have in mind. This tank is a 25 gallon 91 litre black plastic header with lid & frost jacket.
What I need to know is:

How often should there be a complete res exchange either per bucket or per circuit of buckets? (To gauge pump purchase)

How much air production would be advisable and where. In each bucket, the res tank or all? (Purchase decisions)

Are submersible pumps quieter? (Stealth)

Is there any fault with using large bore pipe connecting the buckets and res in a loop? (Remembering root issues)

What issues could there be if I built my own wooden lids (waterproofed) instead of using the plastic lids that come with the buckets? (Ease of inspection)

Would it be better to have each bucket fed seperatly via a pumped manifold and have the individual returns passive? (I think this is where your disease theory comes in MW)

I can't fill this tank to its capacity as the nute level would be higher than the buckets. I've seen an intermediate bucket system but I'm sure having the whole 190 litres circulating will be better for both the plants and obtaining that 'sweet spot'?

It seems a lot of Qs people. But as you know I'm not as dumb as could be possible (quiet at the back) and the answers to these will help me get on with calculations.

[Shadows]

Hey, Im one of those res heat worry-warts, lol. Its easier to blame then admit failure, lol...

Anyway burnsy, just to toss a wrench, have you considered Biobuckets? Like Daltron uses? You're setup wont be too far off of that if it runs continuous.

[Mr Burns]

Hit me with that Bio-Bucket thang ND.
I remember Daltron having that elevated bucket with large plastic return gully? Big wash going into main reserve? That the one?

So am I a bit off track calling this bubbler buckets? Would 10 buckets in a loop be a Bio-Bucket set up? Or would the Bio-Bucket be the smaller bucket in a larger one....?

[Shadows]

Yeah, thats the one.

You are on track calling yours a bubbling bucket, because as you have it planned, you'll be the one monitering the PH of the setup and doing resevoir change outs weekly.

In a biobucket system you dont do a res change, or adjust the PH after its initial setting. Theres some good bacteria at work and once a PH is established they maintain it with in a few points. Theres tons to understand about it to truely trust the setup, Daltron has done an excellent job of laying it out with clarity.

[CB]

Right. Today I made headway with gear, I now have 10 x 20 litre buckets to use so I can disregard the 10 litre ones. I have also bought as bigger reserve tank as I can fit in the space I have in mind. This tank is a 25 gallon 91 litre black plastic header with lid & frost jacket.
What I need to know is:

[B]How often should there be a complete res exchange either per bucket or per circuit of buckets? (To gauge pump purchase)

with a recir it's not how offton but can the pumps keep all buckets at the same level at all times or so my hydro store guy says

I'm think'n 2 pumps in the res feed'n 5 buckets each ..... dont have a clue how to gauge what size you will need :o


How much air production would be advisable and where. In each bucket, the res tank or all? (Purchase decisions)

i would use 2 per bucket and a couple in the res....gotto have bubbles and the more the better
Are submersible pumps quieter? (Stealth)

yes and the allso heat your res up....might be a plus for your conditons right now :shrug:

Is there any fault with using large bore pipe connecting the buckets and res in a loop? (Remembering root issues)

What issues could there be if I built my own wooden lids (waterproofed) instead of using the plastic lids that come with the buckets? (Ease of inspection)

large bore pipes would be better i think....less likely to clog but i think this will have a factor in the pump size as well



I can't fill this tank to its capacity as the nute level would be higher than the buckets. I've seen an intermediate bucket system but I'm sure having the whole 190 litres circulating will be better for both the plants and obtaining that 'sweet spot'?

your on the right track now burnsy......this will allso save you a few head aches as well 2thumbs


I'm going hit ya with a pm and give you a link to someone that knows more about pumps than me as i only do single 5 gallon bubblers

would hate to see you burn up a couple pumps right from the get go ....as they can be a bit spendy

[midwestbluntman]

Would one of ya'll post a link to this bio bucket?This sounds like a system that requires minimal user input "which means to me" that you could spend more time away from it then the one that is totally user dependent.It would sweet if i could not really need to be there for 4 or 5 days.Then i could vacate this hell hole that i work at.

Burnsy
I'll take a stab at the questions,but most of them will draw mixed reveiws as user preffrence will vary.

How often should there be a complete res exchange either per bucket or per circuit of buckets? (To gauge pump purchase

Mine turns around 5 to 8 minute cycles,but im using alot less volume.I think with the volume you want you could go with 15 min intervals.



How much air production would be advisable and where. In each bucket, the res tank or all? (Purchase decisions)

I dont think you can give them to much air bubbles.I run a duel output on each bubbler.the res i dont aerate but if doesnt really just sit,its always moving.I would start with a couple per bucket.

Are submersible pumps quieter? (Stealth)

some not all,your going to get a gentle hum with any but some will be alot louder than others.


Is there any fault with using large bore pipe connecting the buckets and res in a loop? (Remembering root issues)

No problem there bro,ya want to stay away from metal as your nutes will eat it and release toxins in your nutes.you also want as much light proofing as possibile when selecting your lines.I personally havent experianced problems in this area,but im only running a 400 watt light.


What issues could there be if I built my own wooden lids (waterproofed) instead of using the plastic lids that come with the buckets? (Ease of inspection)

there shouldnt be any problems there bro,I think you can use about whatever you want.



Would it be better to have each bucket fed seperatly via a pumped manifold and have the individual returns passive? (I think this is where your disease theory comes in MW)

Anytime you put more than 1 plant in the same nute solution you run the risk of disease getting them all.I run a feed line to each so i know im getting possitive recirculation in all the bubblers.

[Mr Burns]

Guys. Your input has been invaluble and feeling as though I'm reading 5 books on the same table, forgive me if I don't reply to each of your comments. I'm at the stage of picking up what's important to my decisions but not forgetting anything not memorised.

After thinking about Bubblers since August I've spent another day toying with NFT, flood 'n' drain and wilma systems. I've decided to stick with the bubblers and a remote reserve tank which I now know as a 'circulatory deep water culture system'. I believe it's the same as Daltrons Bio-Bucket system Cheap although al the lines in my system I intend to have live and none acting on gravity. Ahhh. That poses a question...............

What I imagined is something like this. It would have two adjustable pumps with the feed being of slightly higher pressure than the return. But thinking about this I could flood the chamber? So, as I intend to use large bore pipe wouldn't it be prudent to pressure feed to the bottom of each bucket and have the nute level run back into he res via gravity in an enclosed gulley? Back to Daltron!!

These question may seem horse shit to some, but sometimes we all need to hear an agreement and if not some advice.


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=903&stc=1&d=1135121808

[Mr Burns]

OK.
So what about this flow rate. If I had morte than enough DO in each bucket and the res tank, surely a high flow rate wouldn't matter?

[CB]

OK.
So what about this flow rate. If I had morte than enough DO in each bucket and the res tank, surely a high flow rate wouldn't matter?


correct you are indeed

with air stones in all buckets and the res there will be plenty of DO for the girls :D

dont think a high flow rate of exchange will matter one way or the other

on second thought it might even create more DO as the water is churned about as well

cant have to much DO in hydro 2thumbs

[Mr Burns]

Thanks again Cheap.
I can undestand that a high flow rate in 'Bio-Buckets' will be to keep algea down, but with individual buckets you get no nute exchange so I was missing the link between non and a high flow rate once connected. I think it's the bio method that needs a good water movement. :hmmmm:

[Mr Burns]

Right. I have the air pumps. Two pumps that will produce 28 litres of air a minute. I was working on a litre every 2 seconds or 1700 litres an hour, and this is as good as.
I've shared the load between the two pumps so 1 pump failing won't kill the crop, hopefully.
All the bins are here. Rubbermaid 35 litre X 9. They had a square ridge in the tops which I thought would give square net pots some support.
8 are for main grow and one I hope to adapt for bringing on post veged plants. I also have a large low rubbermaid for bringing on clones inside the burnsonator. (Cassette next to container for perspective)
All's looking good. All I need to find is magnetic pumps for both the main grow and the burnsonator clone tank.

Any ideas please do say.

[CB]

Thanks again Cheap.
I can undestand that a high flow rate in 'Bio-Buckets' will be to keep algea down, but with individual buckets you get no nute exchange so I was missing the link between non and a high flow rate once connected. I think it's the bio method that needs a good water movement. :hmmmm:

no prob M8

and your correct you will not have any nute exchange your just maintain'n the nute level with one easy place to adjust things from;)

All I need to find is magnetic pumps for both the main grow and the burnsonator clone tank.

any luck from that link i pm'd?

if not i can dig up another no problem

get any meters yet? if not google up truncheon for one around 100 bucks

i use oaktons myself and really like em......had these for over 2 years and no problems......not even a batt change yet or had to recalibrate yet 2thumbs

best get those tub's covered :p

[Mr Burns]

I was looking at these Cheap. I can get a better eal on the pair from another source but this gives an idea of what I'm tinking. The only worry is am I going too automated? Shouldn't it be a bit more 'hands on'?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7731536679&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7731536607&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Otherwise its a BlueLabz truncheon, or maybe go cheap like £20/$34 each?

[CB]

The only worry is am I going too automated? Shouldn't it be a bit more 'hands on'??

think those will work just fine burnsy :D


or maybe go cheap like £20/$34 each

cheap meter's are just that .....cheap

[milagro]

cheap meter's are just that .....cheap




If there's anybody that knows about cheap....

it's that cheap bastard; cheapbastard.:cool:

Right CB? :D You get what you pay for. ;)



milagro

[Mr Burns]

That'll be them then. I'll order em next week when the bank balance is better and it'll spread parcels over time too.

I think that'll be it for meters? PH, ppm.