NFT with Canna Substra.

[The Hooded Claw]

Here we go.

9 SK1s flipped to 12/12 last night. Vegged for 2 weeks on Canna Aqua and about to run on Canna Substra SW.
The plants are all twin cola'd and intentions were to train the inner cola along the string trusses and let the outer cola go skywards. This sounds a bit arse about face, but the outer colas will always be 2ft 6inches away from the lamp itself, so what the inner colas produce can be maintained at the same distance except verticaly and not on a fixed horizontal distance as the upright colas will be.
There's always the possibility that the outer colas will outgrow the inner colas but I'm sure some kind of balance with the shade height will be possible.

First pic 2 weeks ago. Second and third tonight.

Grow on....

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

Looks excellent! :smokin:

[Elephunt man]

Absolutely incredible detail, the condo of grow rooms:) .

[gorilla]

Way cool growing technique, Hooded Claw. Plants look excellent as well.

Can't wait to see more! :p

[jj2ss3o2s]

yeah buddy! lookin good. nice and organized there

[The Hooded Claw]

We'll see how it goes eh? Maybe there will be some method behind my madness!

Thanks for the kind words everyone. As soon as something happens I'll update.

In the mean time, I ought to catch up with what you folks are up to........

[CB]

In the mean time, I ought to catch up with what you folks are up to........

looks great Claw....

me the same.... full of piss and vinager :D

setup looks great bro tho

grow on


:pass:

[vernonsupreme]

looks good mahn

[The Hooded Claw]

A couple of ligts on so we can see where its at.

[The Hooded Claw]

This journal is going to be my last chaps as you may know.

I've been using SW Substra and not HW Substra and the PH does look after itsef. I haven't mastered it yet but when adding nutes the PH rises shrply. Twice I've PH'd down only to return 6 hours later and the PH has dropped to 4 or so.
There's a lot more to this using Substra in NFT than I was first told. I didn't believe the whole report cause the source of information was sketchy, but it looks as though Substra is in fact kinder to NFT than Aqua which was developed for NFT.

The plants are really putting on weight and are growing with that mountainside lok I'd hoped they would. I couldn't say any less than I'm tripping on a good programme. Seems a shame that this will be it until I get settled again, but hopefully its all for the better.

I like the way this journal is running. No pressure and no BS "If I could grow like you" entries. I'm not bigging myself cause I've a shit load to learn and I realise I'm in my infancy of NFT, but It's nice be with people the same level of interest, and not users who's main interest is having their fat ass in every thread and face!

Grow on ladies and gentlemen. Alls cool.....:p

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7319&stc=1&d=1165276436

[CB]

[CENTER]This journal is going to be my last chaps as you may know.

I've been using SW Substra and not HW Substra and the PH does look after itsef. I haven't mastered it yet but when adding nutes the PH rises shrply. Twice I've PH'd down only to return 6 hours later and the PH has dropped to 4 or so.
There's a lot more to this using Substra in NFT than I was first told. I didn't believe the whole report cause the source of information was sketchy, but it looks as though Substra is in fact kinder to NFT than Aqua which was developed for NFT.

The plants are really putting on weight and are growing with that mountainside lok I'd hoped they would. I couldn't say any less than I'm tripping on a good programme. Seems a shame that this will be it until I get settled again, but hopefully its all for the better.

I like the way this journal is running. No pressure and no BS "If I could grow like you" entries. I'm not bigging myself cause I've a shit load to learn and I realise I'm in my infancy of NFT, but It's nice be with people the same level of interest, and not users who's main interest is having their fat ass in every thread and face!

Grow on ladies and gentlemen. Alls cool.....:p



I have no idea at all what ya on about but...

sounds like some good smoke ya rip'n on :courtjester:

[gorilla]

All's cool Claw. ;)

Plants look very healthy and happy, sure seems like a good nutrient program. I don't know much about NFT.. Want to explain what's going on with the roots? :hmmmm: Thanks...

-goooorilla

[vernonsupreme]

hey mah, what kinda pump do you use for your tables?

I'm tryign to go hydro right now and am stuck b/w 12 dwc buckets in a recirculating system or 2 3x3 nft trays.

i've got a 300 gph mag drive pump sitting around that would work perfect for the nft tables but I think i would see better results (and a lower plant count) with the dw system....

[The Hooded Claw]

Cheap, you'll have to excuse my obscure remarks. That forked tongue does as much good as bad at times but you know me and how it is.... I tink!

Gorilla what was it about the roots you want to question?

Vern I use a 1000LPH Maxi-Jet pump. Without doubt Maxi-Jet are the most common 24/7 pump in Europe and is standard equipment on complete kits. I've used Hydon(?) and Hailia pumps but nothing matches the Maxi-Jets for reliablility, quietness and performance $ for $.
Becuase I use a remote res with overflow I don't need to match a pump to the system to avoid an overflow, I simply have a minimum to reach and anything over that will induce DO (dissolved oxygen).
When I say minimum, I need a pump that will feed both tables and is also within the pumps maximum head, so anything rated higher will overflow and create DO into the tank which it overflows in. I've no air pumps or associated airlines and nor do I use any other air inducing liquids ect. The DO comes from utilising natures gravity and nothing else.

Vern, as for DWC I understand a lot of people swear by them, but how many have had a good bash at NFT and then moved to DWC stating this ? If I were you I'd go with NFT and stick a remote res in it like I have. You can change the PH, nutes and water levels during any light period because you can site the remote res outside the grow area. You only need lift the lid and see the pumps working. If you have Nutrient and PH monitors like I have you can also clean their probes during any light period as you can take all readings from the remote res. In fact, once you have the tables set with plants in that's the last thing you'll be doing in the grow area except gazing at them! Theres nothing else to do in the grow room except check the shade heights and admire your plants.

Are you aware of how this remote res set up works? If not I'm happy to strike somehing up.

[CB]

Cheap, you'll have to excuse my obscure remarks. That forked tongue does as much good as bad at times but you know me and how it is.... I tink! :D tiss all good bro


Are you aware of how this remote res set up works? If not I'm happy to strike somehing up.


I'm not since I only use DWC but now you have sparked an interest :p

I under stand how this remote res works but would love to see some details on how you have it set it up. does this run 24/7 ? (pump) or is it timed like a F&D ?

grow on

[The Hooded Claw]

:.....does this run 24/7 ? (pump) or is it timed like a F&D ?....

24/7. That's why I've tried a few pumps. I knew Maxi-Jet were good but I'm the type of person who breaks his leg to see if its true, and not listen to advice that it'll hurt. I tried a hydro shops advice which was like pulling teeth. The Hailea I tried in my F&D Veg cab, but its water entry height was ass about face and near the top of the pump body. It only had one way of mounting on its plate so it was a crazy design floor.
The Maxi-Jets are excellent. I noticed when stripping each pump down in its own time, that these Maxi Jets don't hold much calcium. Its almost as though the plastic body has a teflon coating. I'm impresseed as you can hear....

If you're not impressed of NFT by these four pictures I'd be dissapointed Vern.

First and third picture taken 3 days ago to the hour. 2nd & 4th tonight......

[smalltime]

That is impressive growth right there. Nice job Claw.
I think that the way you are training the plants will work very well. It will act like a stadium scrog setup. You should have a really good yeild from taking the time to train them.

smalltime

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

lush, thanks for sharing :smokin:

[The Hooded Claw]

ty. I love you all.

[gorilla]

Wow they really are growing quickly, huh? Good job pal.

Gorilla what was it about the roots you want to question? Well, NFT is Nutrient Film Technique? Right? - And that's the limit of my knowelge. :p Basically.. Is there a medium underneath the (what I think is) poly? Just water? Are the roots exposed to air? What exactly is NFT, if you don't mind explaining your setup?

[The Hooded Claw]

Cheers peeps.

Gorilla to make it simpler I'll cut n paste:

Nutrient Film Technique is the truest form of hydroponics designed and perfected by Dr Allen Cooper in the 1960's and 70's. NFT is a closed, re-circulating system, which does not require a rooting medium. It is also extremely popular amongst commercial growers.

How does it work?

A very simple hydroponic system, it requires a constant supply of nutrient solution flowing over the plant's roots. This flow is a very shallow film of solution, constantly supplied by a pump and continually re-circulated from the tank and into the growing tray.

NFT systems do not utilise a growing medium, instead the plants are placed on a flat surface (plastic, glass or fibreglass are commonly used). These days plastic channels are the preferred method, with the nutrient film flowing through the channel.

Ideally the depth of the nutrient film should never exceed 2mm for optimum results. The idea is for the lower ends of the roots to wet leaving the upper roots to take up oxygen.


The trays are covered with a cheap purpose made fibre cloth that the roots can bond to. It's similar in feel to glass fibre matt and similar in structure, although more cotton to the the touch. You place your cubed clones or seedlings onto this and away you go!
The nute holding tank sits underneath and supports the root tray. The root tray sits on a slant allowing the pumped nutrient to flow across the nutes and back down into the tank. That's it.

If you get a complete kit all you'll need is the plants, nutes and lights and you're away. http://www.growell.co.uk/p/0330/NFT_Gro_Tanks.html
I know I'd never change now that I'm using NFT. Unless it was outdoors......

[Shadows]

Hey bro, very fine looking setup. Those 3 days growth pictures were impressive to say the least. I gotta say, if you can get NFT to grow like that, well then it aughta be easy for anyone to do. j/jk
Grow on THC ;)

NDS

[vernonsupreme]

Are you aware of how this remote res set up works? If not I'm happy to strike somehing up.

yeah i already have a spot picked out for the remote rez and was planning on using a waterfall for DO, and I have seen nft tables that have really impressed me, but then i look at daltrons bio-bucket grow and it's rediulous.

I would really like to go to bio-buckets down the road, but up until daltrons surgery we were comparing notes and theories on bio growing techniques as to whether or not they could be applied to an NFT style grow.

so who knows, maybe I'll do the first Bio-nft grow....i'm sure the results would be stellar.

[gorilla]

Hey Claw, Thanks for the excellent answer. :high5:

Your roots are rockin'. :cool: That "cube" thing I see in the second picture, Is this a big rockwool cube or that fiber mat you were speaking of? Second question about that "cube", how many plants' roots do I see in there?

Keep it up mang. :D

[The Hooded Claw]

I would really like to go to bio-buckets down the road, but up until daltrons surgery we were comparing notes and theories on bio growing techniques as to whether or not they could be applied to an NFT style grow.

I remember the bio-buckets, and the DO was introduced to the remote res with the bucket return flow similar to that of a firemans hose! It's kind of what Ive done except more gentle and splitting the DO between the remote res flow in, and the overflow to the nute holding tanks under the trays. That way what gets pumped up has been primed with DO and the fall into the remote res gives more DO, which is where the tables are fed from so getting maximum DO at the most important part of the cycle.
TBO I've got some liquid oxygen but I don't need it. My DO is in the lower band but so far I've had no issues with waterborn pests, so I'll carry o and save the liquid oxygen for any possible water born problem.
It was a sure shame regarding Daltron. I remember he was always willing to take the time to describe with text and pictures if he sensed you had a genuine interest. He's an angel for sure.......

That "cube" thing I see in the second picture, Is this a big rockwool cube or that fiber mat you were speaking of? Second question about that "cube", how many plants' roots do I see in there?
Keep it up mang. :D

Rilla. Yep that's a tall 3 inch rockwool cube and the roots you see belong to that one plant. The matting when wet is near invisible so what you see is the roots. I've heard of roots 2 inches thick in these trays but I've never been able to replicate it, not that I've tried that hard!
When this crop is over I'll show you the root structure of the whole tray. I'll be moving a month after this one finishes so I'll be away for a while until I can get the ADSL hooked up ect. But at least you'll see the end of this one.

Smaltime thanks for the heads up. 'Stadium grow'. That's it. Stadium grow......

Flush on Friday with the first week of PK13/14......

[vernonsupreme]

is the mat a coco fibre mat or what is it made out of? I had always thought the roots just layed on the bottom of the tub.

maybe i will get the ebb and flow tables and will jsut try a bio nft show, if all else fails I can go back to the nft the normal way

[The Hooded Claw]

Its a spreader matting Vern. Cheap as chips and very thin. In fact when wet it's useless trying to pick it up as it breaks up.

Check your mail and have a look.

[Shadows]

The last picture of plants, they didnt look like they were all that into the budding phase, how far into 12/12 is the lighting? I only ask because it seems early to me for PK13/14. I've never used the stuff but thought it wasnt to be used until the buds were clustered up and starting the swell?

[gorilla]

Rilla. Yep that's a tall 3 inch rockwool cube and the roots you see belong to that one plant. The matting when wet is near invisible so what you see is the roots. I've heard of roots 2 inches thick in these trays but I've never been able to replicate it, not that I've tried that hard!

like, whoa dude! :eek: impressive. :cool:

[The Hooded Claw]

ND. Ive seen people use it at all stages including all the way through to flush, so I'm giving them half dose from this weekend up to the third week, and then the 3rd & 4th week full strength. After that its 2 weeks flush with the last two days lights on and pumps off. Not done either before but its all an experiment eh? BTW, they had 1 week veg and this'll be roughly 10 days of 12/12.

Rilla. Like I say I've seen em 2 inches thick, but I think a lot of that is extended (or regular) veg times and not as short as I give them.

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

I sure am glad you didn't use my dosage rate on the epsom salts last week. I had it way too concentrated. For future reference .5 teaspoon or approx 2.5 grams of epsom salt 9.5% Mg per gallon of water adds 58 ppm of Mg to the solution. :smokin:

calculator used (http://www.angelfire.com/cantina/fourtwenty/articles/profiles.htm)



Just for fun I calculated the values for the canna vega + flores you said you gave them to get the recovery. The second pic is the vega and the third is the flores. here is the totals vega+flores for 120ml each per 200 liters water(2.25 mL per gallon). I didn't have the net weight or liquid volume, so I use the default, so it is close but not exact. :smokin:
total N = 66ppm
P = 18
K = 96
Ca = 39
Mg = 13
S = 19

[The Hooded Claw]

That looks superb Q. Thank you for taking the time.
I'm hoping that I won't get issued with the Substra, although I'm using the SW (soft water) & not the HW (hard water) which I ordered, so I can't say what Issues I'll get these next few weeks.

I'm off to get them WR photos as I haven't labelled my back up discs :(

[The Hooded Claw]

So were at the point where the inner colas need releasing. These inner colas have far more tighter nodes than the outer upright colas which I find strange considering stretch should have been prevalent on these colas? Any thoughts?

I've attatched a picture showing the effect I was trying to achieve although I never had intentions of releasing the inner colas. If I release now hopefully these colas will continue to lean in and grow towards the lamp giving an even distance between upright and inner colas? We'll see and as I've said many times it's all a game so anythings worth a shot eh?

Also tomorrow I'll be removing all the under nug sites cause one I hate trimming these pesky shitters and two hopefully the wasted growth will transfer to what's important.

Next grow I'll be taking fixed stills and loading them up into a clone to harvest 1 minute strip.

[Shadows]

So were at the point where the inner colas need releasing. These inner colas have far more tighter nodes than the outer upright colas which I find strange considering stretch should have been prevalent on these colas? Any thoughts?

I've attatched a picture showing the effect I was trying to achieve although I never had intentions of releasing the inner colas. If I release now hopefully these colas will continue to lean in and grow towards the lamp giving an even distance between upright and inner colas? We'll see and as I've said many times it's all a game so anythings worth a shot eh?

Also tomorrow I'll be removing all the under nug sites cause one I hate trimming these pesky shitters and two hopefully the wasted growth will transfer to what's important.

Next grow I'll be taking fixed stills and loading them up into a clone to harvest 1 minute strip.

Dunno, I always find the main cola to have the tighest bunchin of nodes, whether they are above or below the canopy for the given plant.
Ties are removed in my garden when the plants start gettin hairy. Usually means 3-4 days left of the stretch, and I want those tops there for the end.

lookin damn good man. Glad Im able to follow.

[The Hooded Claw]

Cheers ND.

You know, I cleared all the under nug sites and noticed the cola the stems that were trussed have far tighrter nodes than the upright colas? My first thought was heat may have stretched the taller colas being that much above the owers, but my fan moves air from top to bottom with vigor. Also, I'd have thought those further away from the lamp would have stretched more and have had 'loser' nodes, but that's not hapened.

Two pics showing 5 days ago and last night. You can gauge growth by the cola to the back far right. You can see how its stretched to the string running along the wall.
The strings you can see now are not the lower trusses. These I put on last night to hold the upright colas (and in turn the lowers). In the first pic you can spot the screw eyes in the wall, and in the second being used.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7361&d=1165362405

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7668&stc=1&d=1165869431

[The Hooded Claw]

OK so I flushed.

APX 200 litres in the three tanks.

300ml each of Canna A&B Substra.
600ml of PK 13/14.

EC= 2.4
PH= 6.0

I wasn't going to PH this flower period, but having ended up with the soft water version of Substra I'm reluctant to stray too far from the garden path. so, with a base city water reading of 7.1 I've reduced the PH with 'Nitric' acid to a PH of 6.0

How about another pic. I find NFT growth rates astounding so here goes.....

Have a look back at the last week.......

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7701&stc=1&d=1165962776

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

How much nitric acid did it take?

[The Hooded Claw]

How much nitric acid did it take?

At least double Q. It's even worse when getting down to individual EC numbers. With Pho I knew just where it would end up, and in fact I never told of my woes the old way cause it'd look so cocky. I could slosh first, wait an hour and know just what to add. Now I add, I add again, again, again, again and yes again a fucking gain......
I'm not saying its crap, I just can't get to grips with it. One thing I have learn't is to wait with it, which is not something when wet we want. With Pho we can have a good idea by the PH change over time how it'll pan out, and add more, or not. With 'Nitric', it just doesn't move and then BAM! Too much!
This time I'm nursing it in which is probably what we should be doing. It's just hat the old way was so more predictable.
I'll use this litre and probably another 3 before I make a decision, but it takes more 're-visits' than conventional Pho acid... but kinder to the plants..

So tonight after watching the pump slow on rate for 3 days I grabbed the filter and found what's on my finger in the pic.
I've also found a LOT more calcium in the tank bottoms. Thing is, I've founf this calcium so so soft unlike when using Canna Aqua. Aqua give hard calcium residue sticking to everything and needing a scourer to remove it. This only needs a finger and it wipes away???

Pics............

[Elephunt man]

Just wanted to drop in and say grow looks incredible, and I love your attention to detail...in your posts too:gthumb: .

I'm gonna shut up now and return to my seat back there in the back row and sit here quietly taking notes.;) Thanks for sharing!:)

[The Hooded Claw]

Just wanted to drop in and say grow looks incredible, and I love your attention to detail...in your posts too:gthumb: .

I'm gonna shut up now and return to my seat back there in the back row and sit here quietly taking notes.;) Thanks for sharing!:)

Elephunt.
Don't waste time takin notes. Its all here. Or there....

I'd construct a more informative post but I've a Stray Cats tribute band to find.......

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

Theres a rumble in brighton tonight
Ringside seats for the neighborhood fight
There aint a damn thing that the cops can do
Theres a rumble in brighton tonight


thants weird about the nitric, it is supposed to take less nitric to neutralize the same amount of alkalinity as it does phosphouric. :shrug: have you tried sulphuric?


:smokin:

[The Hooded Claw]

Sulphuric!! Never knew that one Q. I can see its on the chart you put up, but I thought you were pulling my leg.

I didn't have such a battle with it this time round. All went well and now I know what gets the PH to within 20ml of target I can start with a big dose. Because I shut the tray taps off until the whole system has mixed and settled I can avoid root shock from incorect PH & EC. Had I stayed with the supplied pumps I'd have had to be quick on my feet, and clever mixing 85 litres through a small slit!

Like I say, I'll give it another couple of litres and look back at it then.

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

No man, its pretty common with big commercial hydro greenhouses. Its probably the cheapest to get and it doesn't add any nitrogen or phosphorus to the mix, so it won't mess with your nutrient ratios. Meaning if you are fighting the pH and always adding acid, it is the adjuster to have the least impact on your plants.


Which ever acid you use, head the cautions on the bottle. Never add water to acid, always add acid to water. I've poured sulphuric acid drain opener into an A/C condensate drain and had it errupt on me and burn the piss out my arm. Lucky I didn't get it in the face. I learned my leason.


toke it easy :smokin:

[The Hooded Claw]

No man, its pretty common with big commercial hydro greenhouses. Its probably the cheapest to get and it doesn't add any nitrogen or phosphorus to the mix, so it won't mess with your nutrient ratios. Meaning if you are fighting the pH and always adding acid, it is the adjuster to have the least impact on your plants.


Which ever acid you use, head the cautions on the bottle. Never add water to acid, always add acid to water. I've poured sulphuric acid drain opener into an A/C condensate drain and had it errupt on me and burn the piss out my arm. Lucky I didn't get it in the face. I learned my leason.


toke it easy :smokin:

Ahh commercial. I can understand although I'd have never linked sulphuric to hydroponic applications.
My condolence on your arm Q. As a plumber I've experience of it but hardly ever use it. If I can't rod or access the area then I'll use it, but I hate having it in the van TBO. I once left some sat on a pipe blockage that was boxed in and 3 90 degree elbows away. Told the occupant not to use the sink, I went outside and then the inevitable shriek. For those reading this who can access sulphuric, fill the bowl, sink or basin with water and pull the plug on sulphuric after its sat for a while. That way the expansion shouldn't track back against the flow of water! I'm still not sure about using it in hydro though.... :(

I almost got an dark period pick tonight but I'll try again in the morning. Bud sites are popping out everywhere and alls loking hunky dory.

I could do with a problem to spice this up a bit!

[Shadows]

I could do with a problem to spice this up a bit!

Hows the balancing beam holding out?

[The Hooded Claw]

Balancing on a beam? Not me ND. I leave that to the ones who can hold their arms above their head without fear of shitting themselves!! (That's policeman talk that is!!)
I'll tell you what ND, how about pic fest time.....

First pic of three colas against the wall and the inner colas falling away to the foot of photo frame. Also pic 6 shows through the grow and that this twin cola effect (stadium effect) really works. Top dollar........

[gorilla]

You grow looks perfect.

Good job dude.

[The Hooded Claw]

Cheers Rilla. TBO I was just out looking at the moms and cuttings with a bin liner in my hand.
I am, now going through the male menapause. For you young ones it's like having been kicked in the balls (without pain) but it lasts years....

I might fook off on a motorbike for a year or two. I've the physical capital so it just needs releasing, and not much at that! Maybe a Honda moped? Fook that BMW GS lark its too frigging posh. What's the point of buying a motorbike for £13,000/$26,000 when a round world plane ticket costs £1500/$3000?? Much better on a moped and at least if a bear chases you the slimmimg club will be proud of the weight loss.
I just don't get enough humour in life with my current setting, and rather than go mad I might piss off and travel again. Sure you meet a healthy number of robbing bastards but for every robbing git you meet 50 humans with helpfull intentions, which is how it should be.

I'm gonna shut the FU now otherwise you'll all think I'm pissed.

[CB]

I'm gonna shut the FU now otherwise you'll all think I'm pissed.

better than be'n pissed on like thats fer sure :eek: I think :D

back 40 still has a great veiw like ;)

just please dont do a low level fly by like last time K :p

[pie]

THC.... Your garden looks Fabuloso….the best NFT I think I have ever seen…. GREAT Job…..

Peace
pi

Last time i saw a garden like yours there was a human grow'in out of it feet first:D ;)

[The Hooded Claw]

....Last time i saw a garden like yours there was a human grow'in out of it feet first:D ;)....

I know him. Ugly old git isn't he. ;) Wasn't he the one who lived close to the Mexican border :shrug: Thanks Pie. Stick around and thank you mucho for the kind words. I do have the best garden don't I :crazy:


CB, what strength was that beer and can I have some :laugh:

News is, someones been busted for growing less than a quarter mile from my house. Not sure what the numbers are but it was a complete internal bedroom apparently. The silly bugger was selling his fare when a purchaser walked out, rolled one up in the street and was watched all the time by two traffic cops in an unmarked car. Tsk Tsk.......

So the grow. Nothings really changed although tomorrow I may be installing one of the thermo electric wall heaters. Temps dropped to 5C/41F at lights off today so I need to act on it and not ignore it!
When I built my light contactor I included a spur of 4 sockets that are live for the 'off' period, which is where the heater will go. That way the lights and heater will never be on at the same time and the girls will love me forever :hug:
On the side grow, I've discovered and isolated the first Russian X HDF X C99 plant that's showed sex, and male at that which I/we should expect. That'll be the breeder for some seed stock to go with the most vigorus female that shows early sex. The next best fem to that will go on to play mom and have a crack at a complete grow with em.

Pics tomorrow of the heater installation and I need to slow the pump down into the remote res. I'll loose some DO from a slower overflow but the heater isn't getting a chance to get up to temps. It's falling short at 16C/61F when I find 18-19C/64-66F optimum for me as it never produces greasy tank walls. Anything over 19C and I can feel unwelcome almost 'slime' on the tank walls.

Oh and the upright colas have stretched a little more than I'd liked them to have, its not of concern although I have needed to raise the shades a little higher from the inner colas than I'd liked. Not sure about cold weather stretch is akin to hot weather stretch :shrug:

[vernonsupreme]

very nice stadium effect, I liked this plan for dual colas from the minute I came up with it :D

[The Hooded Claw]

very nice stadium effect, I liked this plan for dual colas from the minute I came up with it :D

There was a time when I liked you.......... :p


http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7854&stc=1&d=1166355525

[The Hooded Claw]

I never got to fit the heater. Other things more important needed my attention.

Today's insight.....

[The Hooded Claw]

Still not got to fit the heater, but as they're looking so good it's not priority until temps drop below 5C/41F. In fact, my best grow ft for ft was in winter without a heater and that included frosts!

So tonight I flushed. Although I throw in what I have in mind, this time I took a little guide from the Canna on-line calculator with a slight adjustment. Instead of 450ml of Substra and 270ml of PK13/14 I gave them 240ml (nearly half) of the Substra and the 270ml of PK13/14 as recommended if it were full strength Substra. Only thing is, the EC is 4.1!! I've never been above 2.8 but I have a plan.....
Instead of draining some off and diluting with fresh water I'll lower the extraction to the plants lower comfort zone to hopefully avoid tip burn (at 4.0, it should be tip explosion!) and see how the night goes. Its an unfortunate balance though, as when in the temps are in the upper comfort zone you get more transpiration and hence they drink more, but in this lower zone to avoid burn they'll drink less, which means less topping off and diluting with fresh water tomorrow. This is a difficult balance to chose, but instead of draining off and diluting I've decided to try the lower comfort zone with temps.

On the up side is I looked at the root trays and I've never had such a thick layer of roots. If you look at the picture the roots climb to 2 inch thick in the bottom right corner. I've only ever managed half inch on previous grows. The down side is there's a layer of calcium deposit forming on the top of the root mass. This is where I should have had HW Substra and not the SW taht was delivered. Time to to complain........

Also I'm giving up with that Nitric acid. I may as well be throwing tap water in there it makes that little effect on the PH..... as you'll see via pic.....

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

They look grand THC.

i just had to convert your dosages of canna into some numbers I could relate to:
Element Symbol
Nitrate N NO3 48.0
Ammonium N NH4 0.0
Urea N NH2 0.0

Nitrogen N Total 48.0
Phosphorus P 92.2
Potassium K 236.6
Magnesium Mg 12.0
Sulfur S 12.0
Calcium Ca 24.0
Iron Fe 0.24000
Boron B 0.08400
Manganese Mn 0.12000
Zinc Zn 0.07200
Molybdenum Mo 0.01080
Sodium Na 0.00000
Copper Cu 0.01200
Chlorine Cl 0.00000
Cobalt Co 0.00000
Silicon Si 0.00000
Selenium Se 0.00000



That was 240 mL of each A and B? those are pretty low ppm numbers for an EC of 4. I must have your dosage off.?

How much nitric were you using? what percentage was it?

The attached zip file is an excell spreadsheet nutrient profile calculator with what I think are your ferts. Its how I came up with those numbers.

[The Hooded Claw]

You know. I read posts from 8am till frigging late.....

Top man Q.

I agree. The EC consisted of 120ml A and 120ml of B. That's how I take dosages. If I had it wrong we'd be at an EC of 5.8 and over, so its not the dosage.
I'm concerned with the layer of calcium. If its growing on top of the roots for comfort, how are the roots going to breath..... with comfort..

[The Hooded Claw]

Leather wips. 2 for £10.

Anyone wanna go halves......

[The Hooded Claw]

Edit. Ramble on....

[The Hooded Claw]

Edit. Ramble on and on...

[The Hooded Claw]

Edited. More useless ramblings....

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

Phooking goofball. :smokin:

Well that makes the elemental ppm even lower then.

Nitrogen N Total 24.0
Phosphorus P 84.4
Potassium K 196.7
Magnesium Mg 6.0
Sulfur S 6.0
Calcium Ca 12.0
Iron Fe 0.12000
Boron B 0.04200
Manganese Mn 0.06000
Zinc Zn 0.03600
Molybdenum Mo 0.00540
Sodium Na 0.00000
Copper Cu 0.00600
Chlorine Cl 0.00000
Cobalt Co 0.00000
Silicon Si 0.00000
Selenium Se 0.00000




By no means high.


is the calcium precipitate something new to you?

[Cranky]

if i can understand all this number lark and ec and stuff then i want some sort of certificate for it!!!:D

looking great thc.

grow on

cranky

[The Hooded Claw]

....is the calcium precipitate something new to you?

Yes Q. Not sure what you mean but at least what you're posting isn't a ramble!
If you could enlighten me I'd appreciate it.

Cranks.

My tap water PH is variable between 6.9 and 7.4. I need it between 5.5 & 6.2 for the plants to eat well.
My tap water EC (electrical current) is 0.6 and I find my ideal EC to be 2.2-2.8, with nutes. So 4.1 is double my maximum dose!

They drank roughly 30 litres last night with no tip burn this far, so hopefully they'll munch through the high EC and I can concentrate on topping off the water daily. I hope!

[Shadows]

Phooking goofball. :smokin:

I concur


By no means high.


Who aint? :D

THC, how'd they handle that high EC? did it drop over a 24 hour period?

[The Hooded Claw]

WTF? :shrug:

Before I get too pissed I'm up for a pic fest.
I installed the heater even if higher than I'd liked. If you're looking Q, what do you think of the basic filter build up? Calcium but to me, far too soft.....

The EC has fallen 3 points from 4.2 to 3.9 after the daily top off. No, top off isn't a prostitute.
See how things go but I'm happy with installations thus far.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/for ums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8002&stc=1&d=1166745507

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

i'll guess it is cacium phosphate precipitation since the pH is so high. I think it is kinda claylike or greasy feeling.



how much volume does your mixing tank have?

[The Hooded Claw]

I think it is kinda claylike or greasy feeling.

Yep. Kinda like candle wax?

The remote Res or mixing tank is 20 Ltrs...

Thanks Q....

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

is the pump with the build up in the mixing tank?


Maybe try adding a then waiting for it to get mixed in well and then add the b then wait then add the pk.

[The Hooded Claw]

is the pump with the build up in the mixing tank?


Maybe try adding a then waiting for it to get mixed in well and then add the b then wait then add the pk.

No Q, the lift pump is located in one of the NFT tanks.....

[The Hooded Claw]

1 Plant has immature buds compared to the rest as seen in pics.
The stadium effect is working well and the EC has dropped from 4.2 to 3.6 which means they're munching through the over-feed :)
Not much nute burn at all considering the very high nute content since last res change, which I'm pleased about!

3-5 weeks to go.....

[The Hooded Claw]

As of today.

[Lungus]

Those look absolutely stellar, THC, a fine looking stable indeed.

[CB]

Hey THC,

great growth on them girls :cool:

been wondering about your lamp shades as they seem a bit odd shaped to me but seem to work... would love a link to some info on them if ya have one

thx

grow on

[The Hooded Claw]

Thank you Lungus and CB, here's them shades. This link has a pictorial explanation of the design. http://gurugardener.co.nz/adjusta%20wing%20shade.htm

[CB]

CB, here's them shades. This link has a pictorial explanation of the design. http://gurugardener.co.nz/adjusta%20wing%20shade.htm

thx claw :cool:

got another question if ya don't mind

Grow room looks tight and filled and it seem you take pics threw a small door way,
how do you get in there to look em over? all that holiday pig has be to a factor in it as well no? :p

gogo gadget arm perhaps :confused

thx

grow on

[The Hooded Claw]

Grow room looks tight and filled and it seem you take pics threw a small door way,
how do you get in there to look em over? all that holiday pig has be to a factor in it as well no? :p

gogo gadget arm perhaps :confused

I've a lot to say but in due respect I'll answer you first CB.
First of all its a shed inside a much bigger building. The few people (mainly tradesmen who get to go in there think its a unit for melting down lead seeing as I'm a plumber, hence the huge pile of scrap lead outside the door ;) The pile changes cause I donate it to a charity that gets kids of the streets with fishing amongst other things, so the heap changes and it looks like a working melting shed, I hope!

So, first pic is the entrance showing grow room to to the immediate right. Second is the door which isn't as small as you think CB, even after eating pigs galore ;) Third pic is to the left of the door and the main part of the electrics with the remote res below. You can see the PH & EC probe wires entering the tote. 4th pic is to the left of the third and the main solution department ;)
Pics were taken whilst flushing hence the PH of 6.9....

The room looks small in the pictures, but the length of the grow area is 8.4ft

More to follow....

[The Hooded Claw]

Today was flush day through choice and not rota, and I discovered I made some dire calculations regarding the PK13/14 last time round. Using Canna's online calculation system it gives the total 13/14 for the whole system. I took this without a zero on the end and gave them 2.7 litres of 13/14 instead of 270ml of 13/14, hence the alarmingly high EC last time I flushed. I overdosed X9!

So tonight I overdosed again. Maybe I'm mad (yes) but I gave em 2 litres (not 2.7) of 13/14 and 240ml each of A&B Substra.

As for the nitric acid for PH down I'm beginning to like it. I don't even use a pipette anymore but instead have a far easier time than Pho acid by sploshing in knowing a quick flick of the wrist lowers by 0.2EC. Superb!

The buds are something else I wanted to talk about....

Since coming indoors (now knowing I was shit outdoors) I keep seeing this "get the lamps as close to the bids as possible" advice, but I'll tell you that the buds furthest from the lamps have far far denser buds now than those that are in the same age, but closer to the lamps. The inner colas which I were once concerned wouldn't compete with the outers are in fact pumping on far more weight than the uprights, and considering the inner colas have bigger side colas to channel feed makes the whole scenario more interesting.
I'll get some pictures of comparison up tomorow after I've been shooting arrows at Turkish grass, but it really is something that's intrigued me with lamps and how close to get em. Or not...

I've adjusted the lamps raising them 1ft above the outers and 3ft from the inners. I've also wound in the shade wires to maximum which will give more downward light transfer.

[The Hooded Claw]

The short veg cab.....

Unbelievable. Every time I look in it there's so much growth I'm chirping like a song bird.
Roots are shooting so so quick it gives me concern over one cube rooting in another, but after many nights pondering I think I have a solution to keep the rapid growth yet keep roots segregated. ;) I really think I have an invention here......:D

Other pics show the feeder tap, main cola of NO1 and an a canopy pic.

[CB]

I'll answer you first CB.


thx for the piccy's bro :cool: and spiffy job on construction as well ;)

grow on

[The Hooded Claw]

Thanks to you to you 2.

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

damn it i must have missed the tour!:p

those shades come highly recomended, i was getting a light/reflector lesson from knna and he said they are the best out there for hid. i can't seem to locate any here in the states.:mad:

so its just a splash of the nitric to affect change? have you figured out how much nitrogen you are adding when using the nitric? it may add enough to take note of it in your fert scheme. i figured you'd get it sorted, its got the most neutralizing power of the acids. sulfuric is maybe a bit more stable, because the plants have less of an appitite for sulfur, but it takes more to affect a change.

be on the look out for Mg and/or Ca def if you maxed out the K dose.


plants look great, grow on :smokin:

[The Hooded Claw]

damn it i must have missed the tour!:p

those shades come highly recomended, i was getting a light/reflector lesson from knna and he said they are the best out there for hid. i can't seem to locate any here in the states.:mad:

so its just a splash of the nitric to affect change? have you figured out how much nitrogen you are adding when using the nitric? it may add enough to take note of it in your fert scheme. i figured you'd get it sorted, its got the most neutralizing power of the acids. sulfuric is maybe a bit more stable, because the plants have less of an appitite for sulfur, but it takes more to affect a change.

be on the look out for Mg and/or Ca def if you maxed out the K dose.


plants look great, grow on :smokin:

Q.

First of all the PH just stays at 6.0 regardless of fresh water top off or extra nutes (with maintenance). I'm starting to fall in love with this Nitric!

The plants in the last two days have gone hell for fucking leather and have put on so much weight. I was never concerned but now I am in absolute fucking awe of what's happening. Colas are leaning under weight even though being tied back and with 3 weeks to go!!!!! Even the undergrowth buds seem to be putting on weight!!!

I meant to give a spurt of Vega nutes earlier, but in such ecstatic circumstances I gave Flores....

Never mind. I suppose it'll do.... :rofl2:

where's the mad house........

Bollocks.

[The Hooded Claw]

Here's another thought.
The outside 2 colas that are in direct line of the fan are producing less bud by eye without deliberation. So what about using the room fan during the off period only?
Would those with smaller gardens of 1 or 4 girls not realise if the 'on-period' oscillating fan could reduce yield, or not, or would it?

EDIT>>>WRONG PICS

[Elephunt man]

Since coming indoors (now knowing I was shit outdoors) I keep seeing this "get the lamps as close to the bids as possible" advice, but I'll tell you that the buds furthest from the lamps have far far denser buds now than those that are in the same age, but closer to the lamps. The inner colas which I were once concerned wouldn't compete with the outers are in fact pumping on far more weight than the uprights, and considering the inner colas have bigger side colas to channel feed makes the whole scenario more interesting.
I'll get some pictures of comparison up tomorow after I've been shooting arrows at Turkish grass, but it really is something that's intrigued me with lamps and how close to get em. Or not...

I've adjusted the lamps raising them 1ft above the outers and 3ft from the inners. I've also wound in the shade wires to maximum which will give more downward light transfer.

Sorry I am late digging this up from a page back:o , but your experiences here with light distances during flowering has sparked my interest. Basically, your post has renewed my interests in some info I read in a TAG aero thread long ago. There are others that have experienced very similar results stating that during flowering "less light is more". I have reconfigured my flower room with a light track in order to test this theory and would like to ask you to please continue to post any of your experiences in this area.

Great journal with tons of info. Love your scientific approach and very detailed posts.2thumbs

[The Hooded Claw]

You know Elephunt man, since that post I've been talking with another grower who has his lamps strapped up high from start to finish (all be it 2.4K) and having seen his produce I can't warrant fussing over this getting as close as possible malarkey.
I think there's more benefit to getting a good quality shade and 'directing' what lumen lamps produce.

Two pictures showing lower buds, one popcorn. One picture showing the 'Stadium effect'.

Plants are now on flush for two weeks.

[pie]

Awesome show’in THC….quite a fine example of know’in your system.

I've been talking with another grower who has his lamps strapped up high from start to finish (all be it 2.4K) and having seen his produce I can't warrant fussing over this getting as close as possible malarkey.
I think there's more benefit to getting a good quality shade and 'directing' what lumen lamps produce.

Mr. Claw I have no facts to back it up but I also think there is a better deal than just out of fry’in range. If you remember a couple years back I was grow’in 5 large plants under my 4-1k’s that were located at the top of each corner of the grow area shine’in to the center and I had some nice results. Just spit ball’in I remember things begin’in to drop off at the 4-5ft. range and I can Guarantee my hoods with glass don’t even come close to the efficiency your get’in from those reflectors. Just my 2 cents worth.

pi

[vernonsupreme]

i have my reflectors set as close as i can to my tallest plant, the other strains that are 8-10" lower are much tighter and larger.


i think it's the extra heat from being that close, but when you are growing several differant strains at the same time you have to sacrifice sometimes

[The Hooded Claw]

...... my 4-1k’s that were located at the top of each corner of the grow area shine’in to the center and I had some nice results. Just spit ball’in I remember things begin’in to drop off at the 4-5ft...
pi

You know Pie, that's just what this guy does, 4 600s one in each top corner and screwed back solid. 8 plants, 111oz maxed and 94oz least, same strain year in year out (but 6-7 footers). I were a little bit :confused when I first heard the numbers but to the eye it looks to be true. Oh, and Canna Substra and NFT!
I don't want to make a big issue of shade distances, but you guys have seen it just as I have. Sure heat will have an effect on closer buds but my temps are the same at table top height as they are shade :shrug: I'm not saying my room is perfect, but the two thermo's say its constant top to bottom. When I get to crop in a couple of weeks I'll show a you a couple of plants at the back that I can't access right now. It'll make things more obvious.

i have my reflectors set as close as i can to my tallest plant, the other strains that are 8-10" lower are much tighter and larger.
i think it's the extra heat from being that close, but when you are growing several differant strains at the same time you have to sacrifice sometimes

I can understand that Vern. Differing plant heights etc and its interesting that you've noticed the difference too.
I've been toying with changing reflectors and ballasts so long its become boring, but I think staying with these highly adjustable shades and changing ballast is the way to go. Running two 600s I might swap for 3 400s and have less light intensity at canopy height. Especially if I'm now going to SOG and not bother with this twin or single big cola'd grows.
I just hope I can get to grips with perfecting the lights intensity and spread before late Summer, cause that's when the new set up will really kick off! ;)

I'll add some pics later tonight when I've done with paperwork.

Thanks for chipping in guys. Interesting stuff and nice to know I'm not going nuts all alone :p

BTHC

[The Hooded Claw]

Another angle at the grow to give perspective.

[gorilla]

Man, what an excellent grow. So many big, perfect colas. Rock on!

[The Hooded Claw]

Man, what an excellent grow. So many big, perfect colas. Rock on!

Thanks Rilla. I'm trying dude.... I'm a tryin..... ;)

[The Hooded Claw]

Colas are starting to fall under weight even though tied at half height.

This Substra SW versus Aqua can been observed by the calcium deposits on a comparison picture that shows heater element suckers that have supported both types of nutriens. Expect 18 litres of Substra to be going down the storm drain this week cause its shite in NFT. Aqua being developed for NFT I should have stuck with and not deviated, but were all here to learn in many different ways..........

Harvest in 6 days. House move 3 days after which is giving a bit of a headache so some may go to waste....

Happy new year.

[Cranky]

oi,if this was the Olympics id be fileing a dope test against ya plants:p

super duper friggin growth matey.....damn fine job.

we have come along way aye;)

nice one dude and happy new year:cool:

cranky

[CB]

Expect 18 litres of Substra to be going down the storm drain this week cause its shite in NFT.

thats a pisser mang, but you never know till ya try like thats for sure ;)


grow on

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8377&d=1168044309



shite in NFT.


yeah man, I was thinking the same thing.

muwahahahahahahahahahahahah :smokin:




whats the substra like 4 % calcium? that is a bit much to be adding all the time, I like to have low calcium in the base fertilizer and use something seperate to increase the calcium when and how much i want.



anyway, they are looking outstanding! I'm envious. :smokin:

[The Hooded Claw]

......we have come along way aye;) ....cranky

You know Cranks, its only been two years now :eek: In growing terms its a short time and although I'm no master gardener I'm amazed at how far I've come and it was never expected in my wildest dreams. I wish I'd spent more time with soil and organics, cause I seriously think if an individual can master organics there's a place in the food market where you could make money. Even smallholdings here are making very good money and organics is the way forward.
Perhaps I'll be looking at NFT organics? I tell you Cranks, theres money to be made if only setting up systems for green headed city folk ;)
Thanks for the vibes Cranks. Top fella :mosh:

thats a pisser mang, but you never know till ya try like thats for sure ;)


grow on

I was pissed with it at first CB, but I say just let it go and move on. I can't advertise it as we know and if the unheard of should happen, I don't want an extra 18 litres as case evidence against me that I'm not going to use ;) Down the storm drain it goes :(

.....yeah man, I was thinking the same thing.

muwahahahahahahahahahahahah :smokin:

whats the substra like 4 % calcium? that is a bit much to be adding all the time, I like to have low calcium in the base fertilizer and use something seperate to increase the calcium when and how much i want.

I hear ya WCQ. The plants don't represent my disappointment above the correx covers, its below in the root zone and the calcium build up I'm not happy with. Canna Aqua you may know was specifically designed for NFT and I had no other issue with it other than getting them to yellow off during the flush. Even with a 3 week flush they remained ridiculously healthy and green which IMHO didn't help the buds tighten up. In fact its only when I SCROGged did they tighten up and go rock hard, which is what I'm returning too along with the Aqua A&B.
As for calcium content I'l have a look later Q. I know you're quite a master at breaking down nutrients and you have a good eye for plant reading and adapting feed. Thing is with the Canna Aqua is it simply works, but this time I'll be using Canazym ect and trying by the chart to see what happens.
If I had your knowledge of nutes Q I'd probably get a 7 part and give it a go, but this moving around malarkey (which will stop this year) breaks up my concentration with everything I do. Maybe Daltrons Bio-Bucket idea is worth a look. Similer to my remote res except it gravitates 'into' the remote res and not 'away' from the remote res. Oh,.. and of course its organic!

Thanks for the kind words guys.

On a side note and a double take on the maturing plants I discovered its 7 White Russians and two SK1s! Don't ask, I know nothing..........

:cool:

[The Hooded Claw]

just cleared that double post up for yas.

cranky.

You're a nice man....

I'd forgotten to mention and this may interest you WCQ, I used a whole litre of 'Nitric' acid on this single grow compared to 1 litre of 'Phosphoric' acid lasting me 5 grows!!!

[Shadows]

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=8377&d=1168044309


Crap THC, what a forest of baseball bats your growing bro. Very nice man. Nothing to add, just enjoying the show. :D

[pie]

The Bar has been RAISED
:notworth::notworth::notworth::greatjob::notworth: :notworth::notworth:
:notworth:

.--. .. .

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

what percentage nitric acid are you useing,and the p acid?

any idea of your source waters alkalinity?

[The Hooded Claw]

Awww shucks guys. Don't raise that bar too far cause I need my alcohol..... ;)

The tanks are drained down and the lights off for 24 hours in the grow area. This is ideal giving me space in the sub-room/work area to dismantle the electrics and extraction without getting peed off with being cramped :thumbs:
I'm happy with the plants but after the SOG grow which flowered from clone to harvest in 6 weeks and which had rock hard nugs, I'm a little miffed. After building the area with extra headroom I now find I don't need it. Had I built it 2ft wider I could have doubled the floors up under SOG :(

Q. I'm not sure what the alkaline is here as I haven't had a water report. Although I've circled back to near where I originally lived I know for fact that the water in this area is piped from a reservoir miles from what we used to use. As soon as we settle back in and get going again I'll get another comprehensive report and if you wouldn't mind going through it with me?
I'd feel less of a monkey if I understood half of what you understand, and I should understand.... As for the Pho, I put apx 40ml per flush which is 180-200litres of fresh. With Nitric you can quadruple that. It wasn't that long back you presented the PH Down sheet showing Nitric to be more concentrate and I don't doubt this as the Substra may have played a part. Although Nitric is kinder to the plants I'm returning to Pho acid cause I never had a problem with it, I was just changing for the hell of it and as Nitric was kinder to plants I thought it was a positive move. However it wasn't for me :(

So its back to Canna Aqua next time and I'm using the CannaZym and the whole caboodle that Canna recommend, except their dose ratios!

Thanks for being around chaps.

THC.

I'm not sure on yield but I'm gonna guess 36. Harvest pics to follow in a couple of days time.

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

Take into consideration the percentage of the acid you were using. if the nitric is a real low percentage, then you aren't getting all you could out of it. if it is something you bought at the local hobbie hydroponic store it is most likely very dilute because of its extreme caustic. the phosphorus can be more concentrated because it isn't as caustic.

The nitric adds about half as much N nutrient as the phosphoric acid adds nutrient P to get the same change in pH.

you still have sulfuric to try before you should go back to phosphoric. but I think you should consider a more concentrated nitric before giving up on it, if that is the case.

here take a look at this screen shot of an acid rate calculator. i used my water numbers of 200 ppm CaCO3 total alkalinity and starting ph of 7.2 with a final pH desired at 5.8



Looks like alot of work a head of ya.
toke it easy :smokin:

[The Hooded Claw]

Ahh I just found this online Q.

CaCO3*285

Ca mg/l*114

I'd never taken into account that the Nitric could have been diluted. I'll check the bottle later today and let you know.

I really need to get to grips with this but I'm looking at using 'Maxsea' Organic hydroponic nutrients which I can't find in the UK. Many phone calls will be made today cause I'm keen on getting an Organic hydro method going as soon as possible....

Thanks Q.

[Shadows]

. Many phone calls will be made today cause I'm keen on getting an Organic hydro method going as soon as possible....

Thanks Q.

I've heard lots of success with Pure Blend Pro nutrients. Is Botanicare a consideration?

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

yeah, I'd try to stay away from the phos acid with alkalinity like that. You'd be likely to have P excess unless you did away with it in your ferts.


On a side not, I made up a solution of gypsum and phos acid a few weeks ago when you showed the calcium build up on your pump. I let all the water evaporate out which left only precipitate. not too sure you can tell much from it but here are a couple pics of what I came up with.

[The Hooded Claw]

I've heard lots of success with Pure Blend Pro nutrients. Is Botanicare a consideration?

Not in the UK. Just like Maxsea it just isn't available over here :(

yeah, I'd try to stay away from the phos acid with alkalinity like that. You'd be likely to have P excess unless you did away with it in your ferts.


On a side not, I made up a solution of gypsum and phos acid a few weeks ago when you showed the calcium build up on your pump. I let all the water evaporate out which left only precipitate. not too sure you can tell much from it but here are a couple pics of what I came up with.

Thing is Q, that build up was with the Nitric not the Phos. I'm left with more than manageable amounts of calcium when using Pho, it's the Nitric that is showing hideous amounts of calcium(?) deposits.
As for the excess P, what would be the worst case scenario if I were to continue using Phos? I say this because Canna Aqua only comes as a two part nutrient, unless one of those two parts could be reduced?

EDIT>>> The Nitric was 38% if that's anything to go by.

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

Thing is Q, that build up was with the Nitric not the Phos.

I know, but you still have lots of P in your ferts that will precipitate with all that calcium in the substra and your water, with a pH over 6 very easily. You had trouble keeping the pH down correct?

Have you used the substra with the phos acid before?

As the nitate that is supplied by the nitric acid is taken up by the plants, the pH rises. Were you a little heseitant to keep adding the nitric to keep the pH in range?

With Phos acid, when the P is taken up by the plant, the pH can rise or drop.

114 ppm Ca supplied by the water is enough all by it self IMO

with 33% nitric, using 4x more nitric than Phosphoric is about correct (I think), this is assuming the phos acid was 75 or 85 %.


picture of Phosphorus toxicity otherwise known as zinc/mangenese/copper (micronutrient anions) defeciency

[The Hooded Claw]

I see I see... 2thumbs

As for Pho Vs Nitric doses, lets take the total wet capacity as 200 litres. With Pho I was adding 30ml to get the PH in range (5.8-6.2) but with the Nitric I was using 50ml and then probably another 25-30ml 2 hours after.
I can get the Phos % tomorrow and no I never tried it with the Substra cause I wanted rid of the Nitric. As for being hesitant using it I was but only because of what seemed high doses. It's capability of holding the PH steady though was solid and even phenomenal, but I'd rather have PH shift than a rock solid res of acid.
The picture you supplied is what I get with the Aqua. I must point out that this Substra was Soft Water when I ordered Hard Water. It arrived so late in the day that I had to use it, however Canna say that SW/Substra is correct for my waters PH, although it doesn't take into account the Alk ect which is probably the fault just as any premixed nutrient solutions that are rated by city water PH and not its make up, do you agree?
So what do you think Q, go for a 3 or 4 part solution?

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

Here is a screenshot of the acid calculator with your water numbers. the nitric is a different concentration than you have, but the ppm numbers of nutrient added by the acids are all accurite no matter the acid percentage.

The change in pH of the water after adding acid is because the acid and the carbonate react and neutralize each other. Whats comes out of the acid/carbonate reaction is CO2 H2O and a salt. Which salt depends on which acid you use and which carbonate it is. If it is nitric acid and calcium carbonate the salt formed is calcium nitrate which dissociates in water and is availible to the plant for uptake. Once all the carbonates are gone, your ferts are really what buffer the pH.With a target pH of 5.8 you are gonna have a res full of acid no matter which acid you use to get there. Because nitric acid is the most potent pH adjuster of the acids we are talking about, there is less added to the res to neutralize the carbonates, and also less still in acid form needed to get the pH to drop. But it is important to take into consideration the amount of nutrient supplied by the acid choosen to get there. You were adding more water than acid with the 38%nitric really.


Currently i use atleast 4 diff things in my mix just to get the nutrient ppm the way i want.

A one part fert for the bulk of the mix and micro's (veg or flower depending), epsom, some kinda calcium source, and potassium nitrate (to boost K).

i don't adjust ph, but I have dirt to help buffer it, and I think it is close enough after I add my ferts.

[The Hooded Claw]

Thanks Q. So, I'll stick it out with the nitrate but I'll try and find a higher concentrate.
Its hard to reply to your posts Q without seeming like a 'brown nose, but I do appreciate they way you put this down cause it does sink in (unlike when you and pie are together, then I'm the dip shit hick from the hills) so although some replies may be short its simply because you answered the cause 2thumbs

What I'm going to do is give the nitric another go except with the Aqua. If there's any difference with it I'll spot it straight away, as with Pho (which doesn't show its % on the bottle) I splosh in with a twist of the wrist finishing of the last 5-10ml via pipet.

Ok so the grow. It isn't any more. All chopped and strung up. I'll be honest and tell you I've never hung before. I give em a quick rest but I normally have apx 280gms (dry) in a purpose built drying cab with an 80watt tube heater at the bottom. This is piped to the grow room who's extraction draws the tepid air through the bud and through the scrubber to atmosphere. I know I've not been doing the humane thing but this time round I'm hopefully doing it right.
They're all strung up with a fan not directed at he buds but circulating warm air at 18C/65F. Humidity is high at 40+ but with the fan I'm hoping it'll balance things out. In any case, the moisture loss from the buds will account for some of that humidity ;)
Hopefully I can dry these girls without any direct heat......

[vernonsupreme]

looks good mahn. keep an eye on them with 40% rh. I've had no problems that high but know people who have

[gorilla]

Wowowowow. :eek:

I can't believe how much each individual plant has budded. I've a hard time picturing those plants in a pot with dirt, and it makes me feel as if I suck at growing. :D

I'll say it again.... Wowowowow! :greatjob:

[The Hooded Claw]

Thanks Vern and Thanks Rilla. I'm gonna get some better pics with a tape measure so you get a better scale of things.

Vern humidity is now 60% but as you've been around 40 I'll let it stay here and see what happens. I don't want them drying too quick because a slow dry test piece I've done looks the best bud I've ever grown!

Pics to follow...

[pie]

Claw I want to say "Great Job" but it seems so inadequate for the wondrous display of beautifully sculptured budage you display….SO….. :cheers:



pi

[The Hooded Claw]

Thanks to each of you. I've not had time to reply so my apologies.

I've harvested all the pop corn which comes to just over 10 oscars and I haven't even touched the colas yet! This is going to be my largest yield by far....
Tanks are now out but I've included a picture of the tanks & harvest during the dismantling two days ago. The sediment in the tank is soft sediment from the substra. There's far less than I'd expected and is unlike the Aqua nutes which leave residue stuck to the tank walls like mini limpets, this is soft residue and easy to sponge up.

Nope. I can't attatch pics...... :(

[CB]

Nope. I can't attatch pics...... :(

why not bro? did I break something

[The Hooded Claw]

Tried it the last three days when I've had time. Logging in has become a wait of waits but when trying to upload pics the new window stalls all white.

[The Hooded Claw]

See where the two pics are joined? That bud less shite is what SOG cuts out. IMHO I can not see why vegging plants gets higher yields. All were doing is providing electric for stem shit to grow.
Fuck stems lets all SOG...............

[CB]

Tried it the last three days when I've had time. Logging in has become a wait of waits but when trying to upload pics the new window stalls all white.

soz bro the server has been acting up a bit and I have been short on time :mad:

damn thang is stoned again :eek:

grow on

[The Hooded Claw]

No problem CB. I'm not logging on so much and the more laid back attitude suits my needs so don't fret.

Sorry for my cursing though! :o

[Shadows]

Soz 10oz just from the crap underneath? Hows them buds drying out and a big congrads on a personal best!


looking forward to the final talley

[gorilla]

You've done a hell of a job with this grow. :P I am also very curious to a final tally. Now, start journaling how fast you can smoke it all. Go go go!

[The Hooded Claw]

Well I hope you're taking a deep breath cause I wish I'd had.

My worst harvest so far but the best looking buds with each one looking photo perfect in their own 'twisted' state. The lower harvest wasn't anything spectacular and nor was the rest.

I swear SOG is where its at. I yielded more in 12/12 from 6 inch clones for fecks sake. This bud looks the dogs danglies though.

I haven't experienced having plentiful weed but not growing. It's a nice feeling and almost like... coming home. Perhaps the quest of growing our own should involve good periods of rest.
I for 1 think I've missed the point in growing my own.

[CB]

I for 1 think I've missed the point in growing my own.

sounds like a good smoke report to me :p

wonders what the claw will dig up in his notes from past grows long smoked :D to aid him into the future...

pics of ya crap harvest bro? its all good


Grow on

:pass:

[vernonsupreme]

I for 1 think I've missed the point in growing my own.

same way i've been feeling mahn.....i need a break for a while to soothe my head...

[Shadows]

I for 1 think I've missed the point in growing my own.

You mean, you didnt have fun, learn something new or libirate yourself of high street prices?
Just messin man

Enjoy the break, but we'll all look forward to a return to growing journal from ya
:cool:

[pie]

Perhaps the quest of growing our own should involve good periods of rest.


Mr. Integument Talon
The natural order of things…Light and dark……Hot and Cold……up And down….. You have earned it…. Just don’t get to comfy….with a personality like yours you have responsibilities to express your unique form of lifes philosophy for those of us lesser be’ins that have the sickness.

pi

[Elephunt man]

Mr. Integument Talon
The natural order of things…Light and dark……Hot and Cold……up And down….. You have earned it…. Just don’t get to comfy….with a personality like yours you have responsibilities to express your unique form of lifes philosophy for those of us lesser be’ins that have the sickness.

pi

My thoughts exactly...pie, you are a poet...

[The Hooded Claw]

CB. Vernon. Shadows. pie & E-Man.

First of all Vern I wondered why or what was getting you thinking the way you were. Growing wasn't irritating me and this is a break without choice, but now I've packed up for 2 months I'm experiencing a new look on growing. Hopefully you'll be feeling the same?
I don't know how you guys feel besides obviously enjoying growing, but I found myself coming away from the room and deliberating for 2 hours or more if I should tweak this or tweak that. I'm pleased that I did otherwise I'd have had a pretty poor indoor set up along with a DGAF attitude, so its not as though I'm not into it. It's the amount of time I spent thinking of tweaks that I now realise took a lot of my chill time up. Now I can lay on the couch in the evening and watch a load of crap on tv!

Pie thanks for the time and thought. Understanding that you must spend a lot of time washing white coats, I appreciate the time out taken to construct that post :p

So where we/I am now.
I've been thinking.... :laugh: I've once vegged clones to 16 inches in very high humidity and no fan. When I've put these out onto NFT tables I can bend the branches anywhere I want (almost like plasticine) and they stay in position (if you leave the oscillating room fan off for 3-4 days). So I was thinking, what if I did this with a ten plant grow? Could it turn out SOG stylee but with more of a SCROG appearance (hence the attached pic). I can see benefits of the main stems having the support of the correx covers and a far easier room to play with if it were a 'carpet' of bud, and not varying colas and side colas making access impossible if not precarious?
Feck it, I'm going to lay on the couch. :alky: Its you lot that get me thinking like this. Go away will you....... :shake: I'm in respite I tell you....

[Shadows]

I don't know how you guys feel besides obviously enjoying growing, but I found myself coming away from the room and deliberating for 2 hours or more if I should tweak this or tweak that. I'm pleased that I did otherwise I'd have had a pretty poor indoor set up along with a DGAF attitude, so its not as though I'm not into it. It's the amount of time I spent thinking of tweaks that I now realise took a lot of my chill time up. Now I can lay on the couch in the evening and watch a load of crap on tv!

Hey now, get the feck outta my head man. Im guilty of the same tho. Pop in take 10 min to see the ladies, spend the next hour thinking, "If I did 'this' it would probably do 'that' for me" or the ever famous "I wonder IF" . Work it down the line, is the effort put into making the change reflected in the yield of the grow or is this something that I just wanna do. Most of the time, its just something I wanna do. Although I will admit the past few weeks I have been getting alot closer to installing an intake fan so my negative pressure aint so negative. That will have an impact on yield considering the 45 min it would take to do, it seems well worth it.
But then, if I went to a 400w it too would impact my yield, but would take me 2 days to get done and partly dialed in, then a new fan would be needed or a new carbon filter so my current one aint so damn loud with the extra air flow. And in the end, it may still need to be removed due to heat or what not. So that falls more into the something I wanna do, not have to. lol..

While you're laying on that couch, will you be incubating those seeds? Dont do the mother hen thing, methane could be lethal.

[The Hooded Claw]

Dont do the mother hen thing, methane could be lethal.
:laugh:

Get out of your head ND? Get TF outa mine man! You had me in stitches and I understand we're both similar in our grow room time expenditure.

Things are happening quicker than I thought this end. 2 of the 5 NFT tanks were broken in transit because of some 'fat ass' standing on them, so I'm seriously considering F&D and burning the remaining three tanks in the dead of night.
I've 80ft2 of green space to play with which equates to a lot of attention. I imagine the basement to hold this...

http://www.coonmfginc.com/products/img/Water%20Tank-3w-inset-sm.jpg

... which 'I imagine' will flood 2 or three rubber lined timber beds filled with stones 2-4 inch each in diameter. I considered ordering clay pebbles but having a limited life I may as well use something that is easily available (delivery of clay pebbles in sacks here would be very unusual and hence suspicious).

So F&D with the res in the basement and the grow in a new purpose built garden building.

Lighting I imagine to be 6 x 600W HIDs or 9 x 400W HIDS.

You've got my brain going ND :damn: You're poison dear friend... poison..... ;)