First Grow/Experiment: All Flouro SOG [Archive]

Elephunt man

11-22-2006, 10:35 PM

Greetings ladies and gents! This is my first time, hope nothing goes wrong. I just took clones from the mothers 9 days ago, and several feel rooted (when tugged) so I'm going to guess we should be go for launch very soon:) . I started with flouros and seeds, and early on learned about overdriving bulbs. When veggin' the mothers, I was extremely impressed with the tight nodes and fast growth I got from my 'overdriven cabinet'. Once I got the HIDs going, I was quickly disappointed at the way they shot up, even with minimal distance. After posting on another forum I was flooded with requests to show how overdriving works. Soon after, I became discouraged at everyone always saying to others 'ditch those flouros, they are only good for babies' or 'your wasting your time without HID' etc.

So, I just have to see for myself:D . Here is a link to pics of the mothers:
http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/showthread.php?p=18904#post18904

Below are some pics of the clones and cab. Last pic is an early pic of the mothers in there. Cabinet is 4 overdriven bulbs overhead at 128 watts a peice, around 6k lumens each, side lighting is 4 regular bulbs at 40 watts and 3k lumens each. 36k lumens and 8 sq ft, just over the minimum required lighting. I believe that actual distance to canopy is what is going to get me through;) . I am not sure how long I will veg them, open to suggestions, cab is 6' high.

I have 2 other rooms so far, one will be a half hydro-half aero mutant GH ebb and gro (1kw HID), the other will be a homemade TAG aero trial thingy (400w HID). I have to start the flouro first, I made the mistake of growing one mother each, and don't have enough clones for the other 2 rooms yet, of course in hydro, they will all be the same strain. So mixed strains on this soil grow. I am thinking of trying different feeding programs too (should I tell them CB?:eek: ).

Any and all comments welcome!

Elephunt man

11-23-2006, 07:54 AM

Think this will work?

11-23-2006, 07:59 AM

(should I tell them CB?:eek: ).

sure... tell away :D

Elephunt man

11-23-2006, 08:06 AM

sure... tell away :D

Actually, I think I'm going wait a little longer to try that, I found rolanterroy's living organics workshop and I'm going shopping!:crazydan: Thanks for the bread crumb trail;) .

gorilla

11-23-2006, 12:12 PM

Wow, everything looks awesome Elephunt! :eek:

You're too funny about the living organics thing. :D CB, I think we need a new grow journal section for this guy alone. :rolleyes:

Very curious, Elephunt. I'll be watching and posting.

- G

rolanterroy

11-23-2006, 12:37 PM

Looks killer amigo!

If ya gots any questions about Living Organics growing just toss them up in this thread for me or whatever and I'll be happy to answer them if I can :D

- REv :smoke1:

Elephunt man

11-23-2006, 05:23 PM

Looks killer amigo!

If ya gots any questions about Living Organics growing just toss them up in this thread for me or whatever and I'll be happy to answer them if I can :D

- REv :smoke1:

Oh, I'm sure I'll have plenty:o . I am really glad your here, and I will stop sending you private messages;) . I have been trying to figure out how and why my mothers have been doing so well since I started. About 3 weeks in I started really paying attention looking for signs of hunger and deficiencies, only to get stumped. I have fed them a few times, but I am nowhere near anyones elses schedules, and just by comparing growth to others I've seen, they have exploded out of my control (for mothers). With CB's help, I was led to your workshop, and with alot of reading about microbes, I discovered that it is probably my original soil mix. Upon recommendation from my local hydro shop, I started with 50/50 FF Ocean Forest and Light Warrior, the latter containing Mycorrhizae Fungi. This seems to be the only thing different from what everyone else is doing (from what I've seen, after all, these 5 week old ladies are my first time) until I ran into you.

Only now, my appetite for information has led me once again frantically researching and trying to catch up to my girls. I will do the best I can to get this thing going asap.

rolanterroy

11-23-2006, 11:06 PM

Elephunt man

11-23-2006, 11:46 PM

The ratios of nutes I give are assuming under HID lighting (which will make a big difference) and it also assumes the plants are topped, and will finish at least 2.5' tall.

I am in the process of downsizing the nute ratios especially in the spikes and instead relying more heavily on the micro-life teas. I now brew them fungi-dominant or bacterial dominant and I have some really good field tested tricks regarding these things. I will PoP up a post here soon and I will blast up some of the important (IMO) stuff related to the living organics growing dynamic.

But under floros dude, and/or with untopped plants, or significantly shorter plants (like a sog) you will have to downsize nute ratios globally; and heavily I would say, at least 50% reduction off the top of my melon. :gthumb:

- REv :smoke1:

They have been under a 1kw hortilux eye halide on a track for about a week.
They are roughly one month old since cotyldons opened. Pic from first day of halide below. They have been topped and donated clones twice. Never pointed that out sorry, this was supposed to be about my new grow with the clones, but finding your stuff has the 'mad scientist' in me going.:confused

Took me about 36 hours to read your workshop, I had to take alot of notes and look stuff up:D .

You probably wouldn't believe it, but while growing the mothers, I pretty much have followed your ideas just from learning from my grandmother in the garden:) . My first few bagseed guinea pig seedlings were 'disassembled' to observe the roots and try and apply what I had read and been taught. I looked for soil and amendments that contained beneficial microbes such as FF light warrior and botanicare hydrogaurd. I used the same watering method and transplanted once a week in more fertilized feeding soil, with 'root deterrants and goodies' without having any idea of ratios or anything:p . I also transplanted them once a week, because I new the roots were going to preoccupy the bottom and lower sides of the container and I wanted to have the tightest root ball possible. I wanted to visually check on the roots too:rolleyes: :) . Believe it or not, I have a week old base:) . I would like to follow your plan to a tee, as I have more seeds, but it's going to take some time to hunt all this stuff down, get my base really cooking etc. Right now I am curious about the mothers, I ordered a lupe, but I am curious:

If I take a little bit of soil off of the top of one of my mothers, add a little casings/compost with an airstone and 2 gal RO water and bubble it - am I to assume if I get froth, that I have some percentage of beasties going? I am guessing if I do, it would be wise to add this to my base? Let me know if I am way off, I'm REALLY new to this but learn super fast.

I think your stuff interests me just as much as TAG aero, it's like growing the plant from the roots up. And I have been trying to figure out how to recycle soil, and vegatable food waste without a compost pile for quite some tine;) .

11-23-2006, 11:56 PM

gebus EM,

great look'n plants and info ;)

just soak'n in the info like but dang them plants look nice

grow on

Elephunt man

11-24-2006, 12:05 AM

gebus EM,

great look'n plants and info ;)

just soak'n in the info like but dang them plants look nice

grow on

Thanks man! Seems rediculous I would be frantically struggling to understand why everything is going so right:) . It's the 'mad scientist' coming out:D !

Just wanted to post a couple comparison pic of the mothers above, all started within a week to ten days of each other. All are dated by filename;) , aren't digitals nice:) .

Hey CB, if I manage to figure this out, I'm taking you with me!:D

Elephunt man

11-24-2006, 12:31 AM

11-24-2006, 12:49 AM

could the fan be to close?

they look thirsty

Elephunt man

11-24-2006, 12:59 AM

could the fan be to close?

they look thirsty

Good eye CB, actually I had a habit of taking pics immediately after transplanting, guess I worried something might go wrong:rolleyes: .

rolanterroy

11-24-2006, 01:01 PM

One of my favorite sources for deep and ancient organics growing info is this lady who lives near me, like 100 years old LoL, she knows some stuff yikes!

Anyways, your teas, as you get better with them will lean fungi-dominant or bacterial dominant, and that's just a fancy way to say they will contain diff elements to some degree that favor one or the other kind of microlife.

make sure you have a nice bag of fresh earthworm castings, this shit is magic and has mucho applications throughout living organics gardening!

NEVER EVER:

use pH-Up or pH-Down products!
spray anything of an insecticidal nature without protecting the soil first!
using hard tap water is bad... and so is using anything that is not 100% organic; no "organic based" products at all that won't fly and all your prollems will emerge in flowering.

My four liquids for teas at various stages, and these are the only 4 liquid nutes I own and in the amounts I use them in they last me well over a couple years, so I keep them refrigerated:

Fishy Ferts (Alaskan) 5-1-1
Fox Farms Big Bloom
Botanicare Liquid Karma
Blackstrap Molasses (unsulphered)

I also favor the water soluable Root Growth Enhancer now :gthumb: (myco-fungi dry form)

- REv :smoke1:

rolanterroy

11-24-2006, 02:37 PM

You don't have to concern yourself overly with things like ratios of organic nutes (dry) as long as you take care of your micro-life first and foremost above all else as a priority! You just need to only cover your bases balance-wize, like make sure all the nutrients and trace elements are covered. Pretty easy to do that, no worries.

Your fungus is a biggie (HUGE) into flowering and so you need to protect and feed that fungi (especially the myco-fungi) from day one so it is nice and established by flowering. This will be like a big P funnel heh heh allowing your plant to absorb lasrge amounts of readily available pre-processed P YaY!

- REv :smoke1:

ps: ANOTHER HUGE NO NO using living organics is:

If you have tap water that is cool enough to use (lucky fuggers) always make sure and bubble it with an airstone for 1/2 a day or let it sit open for a full day (24hrs) before ya use it! The Chlorine will lay waste to your microlife instantly!

You can likely get the Chlorine out bubbling it for less time or leaving it out for less time, but those are my safety rule guidelines I use if I ever say get into a spot where I need water now; I also keep around a Brita Pitcher filter for using on tap water in case of some emergency dealio.

Elephunt man

11-24-2006, 07:36 PM

Thanks rev, I use RO, 6.8 60 ppm at tap.

I had to take down the 1kw last night:mad: , and button up the future TAG room with a 400 switchable, fan etc. I put the 2 big bagseed in there and flipped them. The 'designer strain' mothers are chillin in the cab till I get my backup 400 up, but it might not be tonight. I was up too late 2 nights in a row and my back is killing me:( .

I went to my hydro shop today and they were closed:mad: . But I might have saved a few bucks by grabbing some stuff I found real cheap.

Superthrive
Lilly Milly Garden Lime, Aluminum Sulphate, and Super Phosphate.
Schultz Blood Meal 12-0-0
Alaskan Liquid Fish Fertilizer 5-1-1

And for rev, some stuff I already had

Fox Farm Grow Big
Western States .01% Vitamin B-1 0.125 Iron, Mang, Zinc
Bandini Bone Meal 1-11-0
Schultz Bone Meal 6-12-0
MG Quick Start 4-12-4:rolleyes:
Botanicare Hydrogaurd

My local hydro store carries FF, I've got the OF soil there before, gonna hope they have POM, it's not on their site. Gonna get some Maxicrop, Big Bloom, Karma and guano.

They have 4 kinds of guano
10-2-0, 0-13-0, 11-13-3, 1-10-0
I'm guessing, the first 2 are best?
I'm guessing Green fuse bloom stimulator is the same as enhancer?
I'm going to ask my shop about 'down to earth' and all the other FF stuff, including the chunky perlite/verm.

I was wondering if you ever looked into Botanicare Hydrogaurd? Beastie Compatible? My shop has several things that look phenominal for beastie spores, and luckily, all based on hydro so all are liquid form. I used FF Light warrior before, very airy with M Fungi, wish I still had the bag so I could tell ya what else is in it, probably an excellent seed starter, said on the bag hydro compatible.

And then I came across this stuff, not cheap, but might replace some other stuff not so easy to get:

General Hydroponics SubCulture .1-.04-.02

SubCulture is a revolutionary blend of fifty-two soil microorganisms that will increase vitality and yield in all plants. It's like Advanced Nutrients Voodoo Juice, Piranha, and Tarantula all rolled up into one. What a cost savings! Whether in soil or hydroponics, the proprietary mixed blend of bacteria, actinomycetes and trichoderma fungi colonize in the root zone and media to form a symbiotic relationship with the plant. Plant root mass will increase, as well as nutrient absorption, creating bigger healthier plants. Microbiological root diseases will be supplanted by the colonized beneficial microbes; as the beneficial organisms out-compete the pathogenic organisms.

SubCulture's Concentration of microorganisms is the highest in the industry at 1.25 billion CFU per gram. General Hydroponics SubCulture creates robust healthy plants with strong, healthy root systems that are resistant to environmental stresses. SubCulture comes in convenient water-soluble 1oz pouch, with each pouch treating up to 50 gallons of nutrient solution, or up to eight cubic feet of media.

Think I should give it a shot?

PS: Have you ever heard of bio buckets? Basically living organics in hydro suspended by lava rocks. I have a whole setup waiting for me to get my shite together.

rolanterroy

11-24-2006, 08:02 PM

Fox Farms Grow Big and Tiger Bloom are not 100% organics and you should not even think about recycling your soil if you use products not 100% organics. Big Bloom is 100% organic. Plus you will not be able to explode micro-populations very high, which is in essence the whole point of living organics growing heh heh ;)

That SubCulture sounds wicked good ...gawd aweful spendy woah! I use these to the same end:

Biozome 2lbs for $20.00

http://www.groworganic.com/images/products/I/ISO300.jpg

Concentrated blend of natural microorganisms put together by Dr. Carl Oppenheimer (the "father of bioremediation") after 40 years of research. He collected these primitive "Archaeobacteria" from salt pans, hot springs, and volcanic regions all over the world, so they are hardy and capable of living in extreme conditions. Applied and watered into the soil, they immediately begin decomposing any organic matter or hydrocarbon based (petroleum products and pesticides) contaminants, and dissolving silicates (rocks) to mineralize the soil by releasing nutrients. Repeated yearly application of BioZome and tilling will increase soil depth. Unbelievable compost starter as these aerobic microbes are active even with minute amounts of oxygen and survive temperatures between 35-180 deg F. Non-pathogenic, non-mutational. Do not use with chlorinated water. Apply once per growing season by sprinkling onto soil surface and watering in: 1 oz/30 sq ft lawn or garden; compost piles use 3 oz/cubic yard material.

Also in concert with the above I use:

Root Growth Enhancer by Down to Earth

SC4538 Soluble Root Growth Enhancer, Mycorrhizae (Endo/Ecto), 12 oz. (1#) $21.90

http://www.biconet.com/soil/GIFs/rootGrowthAllTh.jpg

This Mycorrhizal Root Growth Enhancer dramatically increasing root growth. This root growth allows added water and nutrient uptake, superior survival, and plant growth. It also minimizes hot weather dry will stresses and winter desiccation.

This holistic, natural, low cost approach to growing bigger, healthier plants. Mycorrhiza are one of the more important groups of soil organisms and play a critical role in nutrient cycling, mediating plant strees and protecting against transplant shock.

Ya gotta bigtime not assume anything is organic 100% ya gotta make sure it is! :)

- REv

Elephunt man

11-24-2006, 08:13 PM

I understand, I bought the grow big and some other crap before I even started, just kinda figured I could make sure this stuff was no good for my purposes before I give it to my freinds;) . It's going to take me a little while to gather up all the correct components, thought a 1oz pack of that subculture might really goose up my base and get it cooking:cool: , to get the ball rolling;) .

Ponder this, I have a 12 bucket hydro setup full of lava rocks waiting for me to start it. Have you ever considered keeping a 55 gallon drum of tea going:eek: ? Pretty much all the elements are available in hydro form. If I gather them all up, wanna try and suggest a recipe?:)

rolanterroy

11-24-2006, 09:02 PM

Elephunt man

11-24-2006, 09:16 PM

No bro, this is one area of growing I have no experience with at all, organic hydro. I will heh heh :D but as of now I have never tried it yet.

I KNOW it works cuz some of my old friends down south of me rock and roll with home brewed teas in hydro SWC / ebb & flow hybrid systems.

I also know some peeps doing very well running the hydro organic nutes in DWC cultures. So they both can work really well, I have tasted the final products from both and they were very good. I dunno if they were *as* good as soil grown organics, but they were very close at least. Way way closer than any synthetics grown I have done myself or tasted from many talented growers. Not to say the synth weeds were bad at all, they were great, just not as great as orgaics in my opinion.

Rock On Mang :D but I would just be guessing with a recipe under hydro conditions. SOil organics (living) where you recycle your soil over and over, adding some poops and meals and organic matter to them is all ya need and not much of that! It's really really cool, and super duper cost effective especially if you are a poor white boy like me heh heh. :cool:

- REvster

EXACTLY my thoughts! Occaisonally picking up casings!;) I'm all into recycling anything I can. I bet with tea in hydro, there is never any res change, and temps gonna play a role on me this summer, LO help there too.

I just wanted to add to anyone else watching, this biggie small strain from the doc is one tough girl, even her clones are indestructable. I only have one pheno from each strain, because I am a dummy:rolleyes: , but I got lucky with this girl.:)

Gonna try and get some stuff moved around tonight and maybe some pics up late.

gorilla

11-25-2006, 07:44 AM

Elephunt man

11-25-2006, 08:44 AM

At the hydro shop where I go, the guy who runs the place has all kinds of plants growing in different hydro setups.

He does one all organic. He adds dry mychorrizae, or however it's spelled, to the res. The water is totally foamy and disgusting looking, but the roots of the plant are bright shiny silver (they are supposed to be) and he swears by it.

Just 2 cents? :p I'm pretty sure they make prefabricated organic nutes for hydro, as well. Actually i have some.

Alot of the 'overly scientific' TAG aero guys grow the plant by the roots. In my first adventure on growing forums, I of course, fell in love with the budshots. After, more and more reading, I started really enjoying looking at well maintained 1+ year old mothers (so bushy and beautiful). But now, to be honest, nothing excites me more than a good root shot:p . IMO, tells the tale of the entire grow period.

Elephunt man

11-25-2006, 08:48 AM

I was posting, trying to answer some questions on another forum, and after being up all night, threw up this:

the compost thing really runs deep, in my particular situation, I can't grow outdoor or have any kind of 'conventional' compost pile.

I gotta say a quick thing about Living Organics that apply here (and to my plan):

In essence, it is not growing a plant at all, it is the growing of beneficial microbeasties (fungi and bacteria) that will protect, control intake (ph and ferts too), and be completely sustained in your compost and plant containers by VERY small amounts of organic matter. That is the best I can do so far, but I am 'exam crashing' this one with some guys help.

That being said, a VERY sterile environment similar to what you would maintain for a plant, must be maintained for your compost.

Blah blah, here's were I get back to the point. A living organics 'compost' container (10 - 30 gallons) works quite unconventionally. By the use of careful promotion, after a very short time, an overwhelming number of beasties will be at your disposal for distribution to keep your plant containers maximized AND decompose organic matter at an accelerated rate.

By now you might see where this could come in very useful for those:

on a budget,

in an apartment or cramped with no real outdoor area,

interested in recycling their plant matter without a 'conventional outdoor compost pile,

interested in growing true organics - after all in living organics - if you EVER introduce something non organic, your beasties will possibly die and take your plants with them. This can be as simple as adding tap water.

Just wanted to see if rev thought I was getting this right.

Elephunt man

11-25-2006, 03:27 PM

Okay, crazy night. Got some stuff going on with AK48, but I'm going to try and handle it on my own. Got the other 400w up and moved some stuff around so I could setup a nice 'laboratory mixing station' for beastie food.

Finally found a local nursery supply house and BAM, JACKPOT!

At least I hope, REV is the chef, I am just gathering what I can:

Whitney Farms Smart Start 9-3-5 calcium 3% sulphur 2.5% Contains 8 species of mycorrhizal fungi - lists the species and cc 7oz $2

Master Nursery Master Bloom 0-10-10 Sulphur 3% 5lbs. $5

Gardner & Bloom 4-4-4 7 species of myco, bunch of trace elements at .1% or less (cool peper shaker) 4 oz $4

Master Nursery Oyster shell lime Calcium 36% Calcium carbonate equivalent 96% 10lbs $7

EB Stone Bat Guano 9 -2-1 2lbs $6

EB Stone Tomato and vegetable food 4-5-3 blended with humic acid and beneficial microbes including myco 3 species 500 viable organisms per pound 4lbs - $6

Uni-gro medium coarse perlite and vermiculite 12 quarts each $4 & $5

Red Star Cottonseed Meal 6-3-1 8lbs - $6

Red Star Hydrated Lime 7lbs - $6

Worm Gold Plus 100% Organic worm casings with kelp and rock minerals 20 quarts - $18

Epsom salt

Steer manure

Here's the kicker, get a load of this soil!:eek:

Master Nursery Bumper Crop

Bumper Crop® Organic Soil Amendment - West Coast
A blend of composted fir bark and forest humus fortified with 15% chicken manure, worm castings, bat guano and kelp meal. pH balanced with dolomite and oyster shell lime. An all purpose pre-fertilized planting and garden soil amendment. Excels as a nutrient rich top dressing and mulch.

With 6 species of myco! 2 cubes cost me $6!

I'm certainly not interested in changing the formula in your workshop, just trying to get what I can. I got a mess of 4 inch pots for free, but I still have to hunt down 5-7 inch square.

I know I still have a few things to get on monday, let me know if any of this stuff will work, and what else I can't substitute. I got a lead on a farm place to try and get some big perlite, greensand, glacier rock etc.

I can try and get POM, Karma, Big Bloom and whatever else at my hydro shop.

So ready to get some beasties brewing!:crazydan:

rolanterroy

11-25-2006, 04:03 PM

Sterile ...is FAR from what your compost should be amigo, if you are doing a basemix (which I highlly recommend) it will be far from sterile, far! :p

Lose all fear of bugs, molds and fungi (is molds and fungi redundant? LoL) and especially bugs hahahah! My basemix is CRAWLING with mini and micro beasties, oribatid mites, gamasid mites, nematodes, worms, and mush more!

Your whole gig here is to have all the good beasties (both micro and mini) fungi and bacterial, just BOOMIN' in a beasty garden of Eden, your container of soilmix filled with cannabis roots heh heh, to have them so dominant, that if bad guys aren't prey right off the bat (and most of the time they are) to the good guys, then the good guys will outcompete them for food via their population numbers.

If I was gonna build a base soilmix today, here's what I would do:

1 bag Ocean Forest organic soilmix by Fox Farms
1 bag mushroom compost
1 bag earthworm castings
1 bag topsoil
6 lbs of crushed oyster shells

The above combined and cut by 1/3rd with a 50/50 large nugget Vermiculite/Perlite and mixed in again and watered down with R/O water.

I would mix in about:

4 cups of cottonseed or soybean meal
4 cups of used coffee grounds
3 cups Fox farms peace of mind 5-5-5 all purpose organic dry
1 cup blood meal
1 cup bone meal (steamed) - I HIGHLY recommend Fish Bone Meal here by Down to Earth brand
1 cup soft rock phosphate
1 cup Glacier Dust
2 1/2 cups greensand
2 cups kelp meal
1 cup seabird guano (the more exotic the location of these birds the more exotic the trace nutes)
2 cups bat guano (high N & high P 1 cup of each)
6 cups composted steer manure
3 cups Bio-Fish 7-7-2 by Down to Earth
2 cups prilled (or pelletized) dolomite lime
2 cups powdered 100% organic rolled oats (oatmeal) powdered in a coffe bean grinder or whatever.

** I eat banannas fairly often and I can get organically grown ones inexpensively; I am a huge fan of letting the peels dry out, then I chop them up with shears, then powder them in a coffee bean grinder and always toss this into my basemix, mix it up on top. When I take soil from my base mix I always dive straight down and avoid skimming off the top or whatever. Cuz once the basemix is cooked, I just add layers of stuff here and there on top. Like recycled soil, and all chopped up cannabis stems, dried and crushed up fan leaves. Then I might add a layer of FFOForest soil, or mushroom compost. or topsoil, or whatever. This way you can cycle it adding and using with killer ease. I also like to toss in a few raisins here and there too. If your basemix looks like it could use a little water, it's great for leftover teas and stuff too, and all the tea sludge can go into your basemix as well as long as your teas aren't too nute heavy **

Mix that all together well and water again until fairly moist; then find someone who has living outdoor compost, or you can purchase this online as well, and toss about 5-10 cups of that right on top, and let the whole thing sit and "cook" for atleast a couple weeks, but 30 days is primo!

That's just off the top of my head but I am pretty sure I covered all the bases there with a killer example of a basemix.

You have another separate tote or whatever that you recycle soil into before adding it to your basemix and when you get to that point I'll be glad to help ya if you want me to. Hope this helps, heh heh pretty damn baked! :gthumb:

Check this out if ya gots the bread: http://www.americanag.com/products.php?cat=79&pg=1

- REv :smoke1: :pass:

Elephunt man

11-25-2006, 10:25 PM

Gotcha. I didn't really mean 'sterile' in that sense, more like 'aware' of what goes in there, especially in the beginning when building beasties. I am trying my best to hunt all this down, but some things are gonna be harder to find. I would love to go online shopping, and order all this stuff, but I don't have the cash:( . Just bad timing. In order to start up anytime soon, I am going to have to sub a couple things out. I have noticed your brain cranks along at light speed, mine does too, but your gonna have to slow down just a little bit, if I am ever gonna catch up. I'm really excited about this soil I found with spores, all the stuff with spores, because I imagine it must be beastie safe. Plus the soil was $6 as opposed to $20 for FF (my fave too:( ).

I can do this, I know it, but initially I just ask ya bear with me. Just please remember, that this is my first grow, and as much as I wanna try some 'REV super bud' honestly, I will be ecstatic just to successfully make it through flower:o . I feel a little obligated to give these guys a show, after all, I started this thread as a grow journal, and I have rooted clones waiting.
I went to the grocery store today and picked up some apple cider vinegar and bananas and stuff. I have a few local farms I can stop by and try and 'pocket' some compost:p .

I could get lucky monday, but so far asking about 'greensand' and 'glacier dust' has only gotten me funny looks. The guys and gals at the nursery all knew about what your doing, they told me there is a local guy that does 'living teas' demonstrations at a local expo. I will try and hunt him down.

I know I can't rush this, but I also am not afraid to break a few eggs in the learning process. I am really lucky to have someone like you to talk me through, but I have a long way to go. I am much more interested in how and why it works, then just setting something up by the book and watching it happen. Basically growing, and learning about growing, is as much 'medicine' for me as smoking is.

rolanterroy

11-25-2006, 10:35 PM

11-25-2006, 10:49 PM

Plenty of greensand available online bro for cheap.

- REv :smoke1:

Fingster might have a link for a good deal

:pass:

Elephunt man

11-25-2006, 10:55 PM

My brain is a strange place LoL, so once an area is activated bunches of stuff comes pouring out, kinda hard to explain, a side effect of being retarded in most areas I guess hahahah...

No worries I am mostly just posting these for you as refrences bro. SUlphur is one of the trickeyest things to bring into the picture; just enough and beasties thrive, a tad too much and they are all (most) dead and that's total death to all the fungi.

See where I say get Fish Bone Meal above? Also how I like to use Alaskan Fishy Ferts in my teas? That's where almost all of my sulphur comes from and it's a good "safe" form of it too.

Any organics soilmix that is NOT FFOForest, or is NOT "aimed" at growing cannabis, will likely be lacking in K, so ya need to buff it up with some extra greensand. Plenty of greensand available online bro for cheap.

- REv :smoke1:

That's more like it:) . I have been reading more of your posts than you know and trying to follow what you have done so far, but when stuff gets changed up without me knowing why, I get frustrated:o :) . It's good to know I can maybe switch a few things I MIGHT have to, just in order to get this thing going this year. If I have to start a new basemix in a couple of months because of mistakes I made, I will not cry, I will be back harder and more eduacated than before;) . I could just start this SOG with what I had planned, I have the old mix ready, but unfortunately, my brain is a little fubar too, and now I think of my mothers as 'contaminated':( . It is surely a little over eagerness on my part, I apologize, it is my 'overly anbitious' mind fuking me up again:o .

I will try really hard to get greensand, especially since it will probably be more than necessary for my particular soil. And please understand, that I understand by deviating from your recipe, I will be 'on my own' to some extent. I am a scientist, and will not hold anyone responsible for my failures but myself;) .

rolanterroy

11-25-2006, 10:57 PM

Elephunt man

11-25-2006, 11:13 PM

I would classify the Glacier Dust as optional, but the greensand is essential! Down to Earth makes a cheap box of greensand that rocks, and I think it's available (free shipping) at that place I gave you a link to above "American Agro" ;)

- REv :smoke1:

I am going to go 'wild goose hunting' one more time on monday. On the internet, it's kind of hard to tell, but I am a very freindly guy and meeting people in person usually gets me bonuses and stuff. A few thing I got at the nursery today were free, and some other stuff, they are going to try and order. Who knows, perhaps if I can hunt down this local guy, he will give me some base/innoculant:) .

When I was at the grocery store I picked up some corn ears too, just guessing the cobs would be good beastie food.

Elephunt man

11-25-2006, 11:30 PM

Just in case anyone following all this is wondering where the growing is in this journal, I have flipped 2 mothers, just to try to keep us all entertained:o . Initially, I just wanted to dismiss some myths by 'new growers' on another board that HID is preferred, not absolutely necessary by doing an 'all flouro grow'. I have 2 400w galaxy switchables that I love, but got really sick of people trying to convince new growers to cram an HID into a tiny area where they have hardly any room for plants, or optomized ventilation. Whenever I suggest an HID to anyone, I include the price of a nice big cooling fan as essential, instead of telling them 'go here and get one for $100'.

I can see that members here value flouros as much as I do, and I'm sure you guys know there place in vegging.

So, I was thinking, I could just take the 2 bagseed I flipped and put them in the flouro cab to flower, after all, my real experiment is about flowering with flouros. But I decided to start from the beginning to try to show some new guys on another forum what's up.

Let me know what you guys wanna see?

Elephunt man

11-26-2006, 12:54 AM

Here is one of those DIY I got so famous for on another board. This one is kind of basic, but I really enjoy trying to find ways that the poor can try to grow too as cheaply as possible:) .

In the first pic with the fan, you can see I took some info from rev's workshop and took it one step further. Just so you know, I have 2 oscillating fans, I got lucky by finding them used/cheap. I am sure you guys have seen what a wall mounted goes for ($$$). I chose to take rev's method of using a simple box fan (cheap) and placement to try to 'bounce' airflow off of walls to 'even out' circulation. Instead of messin around and finding the best possible spot, I just mounted it and made some empty bottle 'air directors' and messed around with placement of those till I got good even distribution. This will in fact, free up a plant site:) .

In the second pic, I have a simple kerosene heater thermostat attached to my light cooling fan, thus requiring no additional heating;) . By monitering placement, you can 'dial' in a temp that will correspond with your canopy temps.

Third pic is of the new 'propagation and seedling' lab area:dapimp: . And some clones to the right getting experimented on:rolleyes: .

Fourth pic is my very first propagated clone:cheeky: :rolleyes: .

Elephunt man

11-26-2006, 03:08 AM

Started the base:cool: , I cut it in half, (thank god) Did you think I was going to use the bathtub? LOL If this works, maybe I will build a trough, but half this mix filled a 50 gallon tub.

Immediately after opening the soil I bought, I saw the difference between it and Fox Farm runs deeper than the price:rolleyes: . It is pretty 'woody' looking and no perlite. I added a little more perlite, some FF I had left and a little less topsoil, to try to compensate.:confused

Whenever I'm not sure what to do, I'm just going to revert to what my granny told me;) .

I know I still need some stuff, gonna try to get them monday.
Greensand
High P Guano (hydro shop)
Mushroom compost
Farm compost
Glacier dust (maybe not necessary)
Seabird Guano (hydro shop)

I'm just going to try to sub a few ferts out, like the POM with some stuff I listed above with spores 4-5-3 for now, I really liked those guys at my local nursery and would like to try their similar products for now.

I went ahead and threw in 4 oz of the Smart Start too, I can probably get alot more of that for next to nothing, they had quite a bit that was past experiation date. Says on container, it will still be good, just not as good.
These things come in little 'tea bags' that it says you place under your plant, thinking about seeing if I can 'brew one up';) .

gorilla

11-26-2006, 04:43 AM

Kudos on the super active journal, Elephant.

Can't wait to see how those plants are doing.

Congrats on the clone, as well. ;)

Elephunt man

11-26-2006, 05:22 AM

Kudos on the super active journal, Elephant.

Can't wait to see how those plants are doing.

Congrats on the clone, as well. ;)

That makes me feel alot better, I was thinking someone was going to tell this 'rambing noob' to take this somewhere else:o .

I promise there will be some beautiful buds at the end of this, just ask you guys bear with me and chime in whenever ya want;) .

Elephunt man

11-26-2006, 06:09 AM

Threw a tea bag and some casings and a pinch of compost in my 'teamaker' with 2 gallons RO water and BAM, foam 3 hours later. I'm thinking of giving it to a couple mothers after a full day brew.

Elephunt man

11-26-2006, 08:33 AM

Don't know if anyone is using one of these, it is a Coralife power center for aqauriums. Has a cool 'flipper timer' to cycle between two outlets. I think after 3 days I got it working right, the instructions suck.

I am hoping I can flip 2 rooms, opposing times with this thing. 1875 watt rating and 4 additional constant outlets.

Cost me 30 bux, little more than 2 timers.

rolanterroy

11-26-2006, 10:59 AM

For your High P Bat Guano, get the PoM version, and this is essential, along with some micronized soft rock phosphate...

http://www.groworganic.com/item_F2130_MicroPhos2LbJar.html

These two combined have a killer effect into flowering that I will show you up the road; do NOT underestimate the power of these two combined, and don't even make a call based on the numbers either heh heh 0-4-0 & 0-2-0 Pom/RockPhos because these two will, when applied the way I will show you, make for some Spectacular flowers of immense size and wonderful flavors and kick ass potent too yikes!

- REv :smoke1:

ps: woody and chunky is a good thing. It is long term microbeasty food and favored by fungi in a big way. It also will aereate the soil well and contribute to very cannabis loving soil structure. Careful adding too much Perlite amigo, or you will be watering every day quickly with the roots that are gonna boom if you do this right!

Elephunt man

11-26-2006, 02:03 PM

Okay, I probably won't have to much trouble getting the ff stuff. I got borderline low humidity here, 40 rh is about average, so airy soil seems to work pretty well for me. I'm also drying my organics in the oven on low, otherwise they will take months.

Some pics, first a little group shot of the mothers not in flower.
Second pic is of my fave, miss biggie small, she puts out some invincible clones;)
Third pic is my teamaker after about 9 hours.
Fourth pic is my basemix, just about to give it a good toss, check the moisture, just mixed it last night.

11-26-2006, 04:01 PM

Gebus EM they look great :eek:

love that ghetto fan setup :cool:

great idea indeed and got me to think'n how too raise my temp's this way as it has been a bit cold here :mad: I just have 1 20 inch osculating fan on flower side but didn't want to run it on non osculating mode...

no prob now ;) and temps are up a bit and air flow is good after a bit of mess'n around :D

grow on

:pass:

Elephunt man

11-26-2006, 04:29 PM

Thanks CB! Makes me feel really good to give back to those who have taught me so much.

The mothers are doing really well. Unfortunately, a little too well.

Here comes the mad scientist:rolleyes: .

I had hoped to learn a little about nute balancing from them, but they haven't taught me anything. I have tried (very carefully) to starve, overfeed, underwater etc. with no effect. Initially when planting them, I used a layered technique my grandmother taught me, and added myco, without really knowing anything about growing MJ, guess it worked. If I actually told you how little food they have had, you probably wouldn't believe me:eek: .

I also had hoped that by initially starting so many plants from seed, that I would surely get a male. I feel it is important for me to see first hand what one looks like. Unfortunately, here again, I was miffed. 11 females and not one male. Guess I will have to herm a clone later.

drumin

11-27-2006, 09:00 AM

Not sure but don't the seeds from hermies have a greater chance of producing hermies?

11-27-2006, 09:28 AM

Not sure but don't the seeds from hermies have a greater chance of producing hermies?

not if it is a forced herm :D

rolanterroy

11-27-2006, 10:54 AM

Unfortunately, from my experience, it's not realy as simple as that CB, it has to do with several things, I am a vet at this process and we used to fugg with it all the time way back when heh heh.

Yes higher chances of hermie tendancies will exist (I shivered when I read that he was casually gonna do this) not to mention, *how* it is forced has a lot to do with it. Also you need to be able to "know your hermie" expressions, cuz it also depends on *how* the fem expresses hermies as well once forced.

- REv :smoke1:

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 06:28 PM

Forget I mentioned the 'hernie clone' thing for now, I know nothing of breeding, just really want to see a male up close and personal like.:o

Okay, I wanna thank REV for stopping by as often as he has. You are the man2thumbs !

I pulled ALOT of strings (hopefully didn't make a noose) and came up with about $80 yesterday. Sold some stuff, borrowed a little and went shopping again:D . I got a 'donation' from a freind in Maryland (sent to my seed ordering address) and hopefully once that clears my bank, I can order some Down to Earth products and the POM I can't seem to get locally:mad: .

Hopefully I did a little better today, this is what I got with what little $ I had.

5 lbs of Whitney Farms Greensand 0-0-3 $6.50 That's right! After 2 dozen phone calls, I finally got the stuff locally!:dance:
EB Stone All purpose plant food with myco 5-5-5 $6 gonna have to try and sub this out for POM for now:(
Concern Diatomaceous Earth $6.50 (better safe than sorry, won't use it unless necessary)
Growmore Seaweed Extract cold pressed Norwegian kelp .1-.1-1.5 $5
Quart Liquid Karma $18
16x 5.5 square pots $12
2lb Sunleaves Peruvian Seabird Guano 10-10-2 $10
Quart FF Big Bloom $13
Unsulphured Molasses $3

I wanted to get High P Guano, Subculture or Green Fuse Bloom stimulater (same as enhancer?) but I couldn't afford it yet and my hydro shop pissed me of by not giving me a sample:mad: . So I got this:

OGM products Rooters Myco endo/ecto 1lb $11

I found big perl/verm, guy said take 2 weeks to get and it is $20 a bag (4 cubes) so that will have to wait too:(

I have all the stuff previously mentioned, as soon as I get a little cash in my account, I will order some Down to Earth stuff, POM, and Glacier Dust.

On the way home, I stopped by a few farms and a guy sold me a bag full (probably 2 quarts) of compost for $2. I asked for living compost, but once I got to the pit, I dug and dug but couldn't find any worms:( . Hopefully there are some microbes in it though.

I also found a source of e casings for $10 a bag, pretty good I think?

Can I just throw some 'fishbait' red worms in there?

Can I use the Lilly Miller Super Phosphate for rock phosphate?

Let me know if we have something we can work with now.

I have found equivalents of all this stuff in hydro form, it is expensive, but eventually I want to try to apply what I learn from this to my 'lava rock ebb and flow', so we'll see how that goes.

11-27-2006, 06:49 PM

but I couldn't afford it yet and my hydro shop pissed me of by not giving me a sample:mad:

smoke up broham.... did ya get a couple of copy's of maximum yeild (http://www.maximumyield.com/)? there free and loaded with tons of great info ;)

sounds like a pretty normal hydro store owner to me.... dont get a freebe every time :p

Rev,
soz i kinda didnt say much about the hermie thing and yes alot of how you do it matters... pretty much got lucky the 1 time i tried it and have long since lost that strain :D ... just know it can be done and was toss'n a bread crumb to brother EM hehe

grow on

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 06:56 PM

smoke up broham.... did ya get a couple of copy's of maximum yeild (http://www.maximumyield.com/)? there free and loaded with tons of great info ;)

sounds like a pretty normal hydro store owner to me.... dont get a freebe every time :p

Rev,
soz i kinda didnt say much about the hermie thing and yes alot of how you do it matters... pretty much got lucky the 1 time i tried it and have long since lost that strain :D ... just know it can be done and was toss'n a bread crumb to brother EM hehe

grow on

Yeah, I've spent well over a grand at that shop and never asked for anything. When I'm in there looking around, I hear him makin' deals all the time:mad: . I asked about the FF POM and big pelite, they are my closest distributor, and basically he told me it would take 2 weeks to get a bulk crate or something like that:mad: . I got a cool nursery to get the big perl at though, he said he orders it for a childrens hospital for making casts, and doesn't keep any on hand. This cool chick at the nursery suggested I raise rabbits, for their poop. Would that work?

11-27-2006, 07:06 PM

I got a cool nursery to get the big perl at though, he said he orders it for a childrens hospital for making casts, and doesn't keep any on hand. This cool chick at the nursery suggested I raise rabbits, for their poop. Would that work?

think the rabbit poop would not work as a sub to large perlite as there meant to do 2 diff things no :shrug:

grow on

11-27-2006, 07:07 PM

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 07:36 PM

think the rabbit poop would not work as a sub to large perlite as there meant to do 2 diff things no :shrug:

grow on

Sorry CB, two different topics. I don't think there is anything I can sub the big perlite/verm out with, unless REV thinks lava rocks would work.

11-27-2006, 07:56 PM

Sorry CB, two different topics. I don't think there is anything I can sub the big perlite/verm out with, unless REV thinks lava rocks would work.

no prob bro just read it wrong hehe

sounded like maybe the rabbit poo was too create air pockets like :D

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 07:58 PM

I think I understand what all the ingrediants are supposed to do, most are trace elements beastie food, sources of N,P,K, some insoluables to be broken down by beasties. I added the greensand, kelp, and seabird guano - gonna wait on the super phosphate till I hear from REV. I think everything else is in there, except for the glacier dust.

I gave it all a good toss and WHOA! Is this supposed to be hot? Felt like about 85 degrees in the basemix!:eek:

rolanterroy

11-27-2006, 09:05 PM

Heh heh :D I know I am like oversensitive on some breeding practices hahahaha, I mean, well, there is so much damage that can be done doing stuff like that and then not disclosing how the offspring came about. I mean by all means fuck with everything, I do, just make sure when and if you give out beans made this way to disclose it please. I can't tell ya how many times I have gotten an f1-f3 that was really a bottlenecked, or tweaked s1 or hermie-made. So please forgive me if I seem kinda fast to pounce on stuff like that LoL, my appologies, I'm a dork, and as a breeder it really matters to me and I am passionate! ;)

OK, the Verm/Perl both 4cuFt bags for 20.00 ea. PERFECT! Large nugget sized and these will last you for quite awhile depending on grow size overall (production.)

Your 5-5-5 w/myco sounds fine bro.

Rabbit Poop is Extrordinary N-heavy ferts, really nice for down low as well.

Heh heh, yeah it's supposed to "cook" for awhile amigo LoL! You see if you planted in that mix NOW you would literally (most likely) COOK the roots, but not in two weeks! :p Or better yet in 30 days it gets just SahWeeet! You'll see!

I dunno nothing about Super Phosphate my friend, does it ... I mean what does it say it is made of?

You are welcom bro glad to help! :)

I'll be back later mang! Grow on! :D

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 09:12 PM

My local nursery has rock phosphate, just ran short on cash today, so I will wait if ya want me to.

Lilly Miller brand says:
Available Phosphate (P2O5) 45%
Derived from: Treble Super Phosphate

This from that 'fertilizer info site'

Guaranteed Analysis % Metals in Product: (ppm)
Total Nitrogen (N) - Arsenic (As) 17.9
Available Phosphoric Acid (P2O5) 45 Cadmium (Cd) 74.2
Soluble Potash (K2O) - Cobalt (Co) 2.7
Calcium (Ca) - Copper (Cu) BDL
Magnesium (Mg) - Lead (Pb) 4.6
Sulfur (S) - Mercury (Hg) ND
Boron (B) - Molybdenum (Mo) 13.6
Chlorine (Cl) - Nickel (Ni) 153
Cobalt (Co) - Selenium (Se) ND
Copper (Cu) -
Iron (Fe) -
Manganese (Mn) -
Molybdenum (Mo) -
Sodium (Na) -
Zinc (Zn) -

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 09:20 PM

I got a couple other 'lilly miller' products I listed previously, don't know if I can use them at all, they are not on that 'fertilizer info site', I only bought them because they were on sale, like $2 each.

Aluminum Sulphate 16% sulphur 9% aluminum from aluminum sulphate

I guess since this stuff has to cook anyway, I can go ahead and throw my living compost and dried organics on top? I wanted to wait till I was done mixing stuff in.

I haven't ordered the big perl and verm yet, I didn't have the cash.:(

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 10:02 PM

Some lame pics of the 2 big bagseed I put in flower over the weekend, one of them shot right into the light and took a little burn:( . She was pretty hungry too, couple tiny 2 inch long roots worked their way out of the drip tray:eek: , she is in 5 gallon. She has so many low roots, she won't let go of the drip tray.

I know, I know, mylar mylar mylar:rolleyes: . Very soon:) .

Dime sized trunks at one month:cool:

I know the light is a little close, it is only a 400 on 12/12 and 4inch vortex running 24/7.

Would you guys like me to put them in the 36k lumen 600 watt flouro cab to flower? I know this thread is supposed to be a SOG from start to finish under flouros, but you guys don't need to be shown how well flouros work for vegging;) .

gorilla

11-27-2006, 10:30 PM

Your plants look freaking awesome, Elephunt.

Good job dude. :cool:

Those ones are on all fox farms food? Sorry that I don't feel like searching through your thread for the answer.

Something tells me that it won't trouble you to reply. ;)

Peace friend. :pass:

Elephunt man

11-27-2006, 10:46 PM

Actually, they have had maybe 2 feedings at only 200 then 600ppm grow big:eek: .A couple mothers still haven't been fed to this day:eek: :eek: . When I planted them, I used 50/50 FF ocean forest and light warrior (with myco) and added a little ferts as 'goodies' and 'diversions' in layers and corners after transplanting. I also used the 'water chasing method' when they were young. All stuff my grandmother showed me when I was very young. I had no idea how similar it was to REV's method, but that is why I like REV's method so much:) .

rolanterroy

11-28-2006, 07:01 PM

Grow Big is Synthetic, and you cannot recycle your soil, nor will you be able to BOOM supernatural PoPulations of Miucrolife in any soil that you have used it on. Same goes for anyother non organic nutes, gotta watch this close, one fuggup makes all the diff. that soil is tainted now and cannot support the SUPER population numbers of beasties Living Organics (my version) relys on for phenominal results.

Super Phos 0-45-0 :eek: God No! Not aimed at beasties, not good for beasties, way too strong way!

15 is my rule of thumb highest number I will even consider using while keeping all microlife happy, I would recommend you use the same scale! Flowering is when any of these kinds of mistakes will present themselves.

First of all bro, don't forget about this little combo here:

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7078&stc=1&d=1164765065

Micro Phosphate & PoM High P Bat Guano

Also save a couple of this kinda thing here below...

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7079&stc=1&d=1164765065

Squirt bottles, this is how I will show you to REALLY get some fuggin HUGE flowers man yikes! But ya gotta have the PoM w/myco, and the myco's fav food the Micro Phos for this to really work!

Make sure you have some Alaskan Fishy Ferts liquid 5-1-1 and some water soluable kelp meal like Maxicrop makes, this is also another super powerful combo for vegg!

Another thing I HIGHLY recommend bro, estate sales are good places to get these but Dehumidifiers!!!!! Keeps transpiration high and plant mold/fungi up top non existant! Great water source too (dehumid water pH's at around 5.6ish) and is GREAT to cut teas with. Bacterial dom teas will often float up high in the pH range, plus if adding things like Big Bloom or whatever they tend to send the pH up as well.

(ALSO do not use water from a Dehumidifier that's not in the growroom. The water will carry certain levels of whatever's in the air it takes water from. So nicotine, carbon monoxide, yada yada... But in the growrrom I have found it's great!)

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7080&stc=1&d=1164765065

Get the MicroPhos bro, only $5.00 online at that link I showed ya, and the PoM High P guano is all over the place, just like the fishy ferts (prolly get that at Home Depot) and the water soluable Kelp/seaweed meal.

Don't even worry about spikes of bonemeal during the last sized container transplant as long as you have the MicroPhos & PoM, just use about 1 tablespoon of steamed bonemeal (fish bone meal by DTE) at the bottom with the manure. The big bonemeal spikes in the last transplant are obsolete now in my dynamic, but I still spike pretty heavy into the 5" containers with long term nutes like bonemeal etc. and that's plenty to carry them through flowering with the PoM MicroPhos tricks heh heh :D

- REv :smoke1:

Elephunt man

11-29-2006, 01:27 PM

Thanks REV, I'm right with ya so far. I have been working too hard and my freinds know it. Yesterday I was 'kidnapped' by a freind and taken to Palm Springs for a night and day of fun in the sun. Luckily, I managed to borrow her car for an hour while she got ready and visited the only hydro shop in town:D . I picked up some:

FF POM High P Guano 0-4-0 for $11
1oz. of GH Subculture 0-3.6-8.5 for $13
some SaferGro Mycormax .5 lb for $9
and a bag of big perlite for $26, not as big as yours, maybe dime sized
My 30x lighted lupe came yesterday $18

Shop employee gave me a NGW catalog and told me he could get me anything out of the catalog with 2 days notice.

My mothers are 'contaminated' I know, as soon as I have clones going from each, my original mothers will be flowered, and their soil will be thrown in the trash.

My grow big, super phos, and anything else that has not been 'specifically' cleared for use by you will be passed on to my 'synthetic' growing freinds.

I have fishy ferts, my humidity here in the desert averages 30-50, so no need for a dehumidifier. I do not get suface fungi.

I have Growmore Seaweed Extract cold pressed Norwegian kelp .1-.1-1.5 $5
I was hoping to sub this for Maxicrop for now, but I'm going to wait for your OK.

Eventually, I would like to hunt down EXACTLY everything you use, but in the meantime, I will not use anything cleared by you first.

The only products I have purchased that you have not listed or spoken of already contain mycos, so I should be okay there.

I noticed I can buy beneficial nematodes from NGW.

I will get these items below ASAP:

micronized rock phosphate
big vermiculite
glacier dust
FF POM 5-5-5, although I will use the comparable brand I have for now, because you cleared it.

I guess I could make a new list of my 'lab supplies' if you like, but it is in this thread, spread through several posts.

I am taking this VERY seriously. I have read MUCH more about this, and understand that the whole idea is based on MASS POPULATIONS of fungi, bacterial beneficials AND DIVERSITY of said beneficials. I am on your page, or one page behind you brother;) .

I missed the great article in Maximum Yield the first time I read it, but it makes sense to me now. Aerobic super population of maximum diversified beneficial beasties is what we want and I will not settle for less;) .

As soon as I can get a little $ in my account, I will order the specific brands you use, such as Down to Earth, but for now, I will continue to look for a local distributor.

There is nothing in my basemix that we have not previously discussed.

Sorry for all of that:o , but I understand the importance of EVERY single item we will be using, just wanted to make sure you know that I know:) .

You are the teacher man, and I am the student:) , and I am very lucky to have such a patient, knowledgeable guy to show me the way!:) :D

Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I will probably do a 'trial run' with the clones in regular old Ocean Forest with no base, and then when I am positive we are ready, I have the stuff, and base is ready, I plan to start over from seed, you can even pick the strain brother, I have about 8 seeds each of 5 strains waiting:D .

Elephunt man

11-29-2006, 02:13 PM

I just noticed that the 2 beneficial bacteria in Botanicare Hydrogaurd are also listed in the ingrediants of FF High P Guano. I know you previously said you trust Botanicare, so hopefully we can try this in the teas, since I already have it.

Elephunt man

11-29-2006, 11:56 PM

Decided to take a break from reading today and go back to doing what I do best, building stuff:D .

First pic is of 'the lab'.

The rest of the pics are of my 'living organics aero, umm, recirculating dwc, umm....

Well, the hell with labels:rolleyes: , buncha buckets and misters and airstone:D .

Thing worked great till I added the casings:rolleyes: . I'll fix it tomorrow.

rolanterroy

11-30-2006, 12:02 PM

I bet that's gonna rock!

Just remember you can sub out anything ya want to cuz you are hep to the properties I use each for more or less, the myco-enhanced properties of the PoM High P Guano and the micronized state of that guano will place lots of P and myco right at the upper roots availibitlies to use. The micronized Phosphate just happens to be the major fav for myco to to get P fro the plant from. Water with a squirt bottle and ya kindof "inject" it right into their lap heh heh.

Your main goal, above all others with this dynamic, is two fold I would say:

Protect and nurture micro and mini beasties fungi and bacterial
Use NOTHING with synthetic salts, non organic products.

Chlorine, really shitty hard tap water, sulphur, blood meal... These are a few of the things to always be on top of as they are potentially deadly to your soil food web in diff degrees.

You look like you are gettin' ready to rock and roll bro, can't wait to see the aero organics thing, mebbe I can hit you up after you learn how to do that for a few recipes myself :)

That's my next adventure in growing hydro (mebbe aero) organics yessir! :D

- REvster

Elephunt man

11-30-2006, 12:22 PM

Thanks REV! I am very knowledged on the whole 'hydro/aero' thing, I've been researching that for about 10x as long as the organics thing. My brain is SUPER mechanical, I can make stuff work. However, I still have ALOT to learn about the specific needs of MJ.

It would be really easy to just fill this thing with some GH 3 part, but unfortunately, following your progress has completely turned me against synthetics. I think I know what the initial recipe might require, but as far as amounts, I haven't a clue. I found some info about basically making 'tea bags' to put in the system, to help prevent pump clogging, but still haven't found anything about a 'starter' mix for clones. If you want to make a stab at a 'test mix' I can try, I will get it brewing tonight. Otherwise, I may kill a few clones before I get it right. I hope no one gets upset about that.

I may have to make a few single test buckets until I get the amonts right. Some of the stuff like Hydrogaurd and Subculture have 'hydro' amonts per gallon on the bottle, but as far as adding the 'beastie' food like the guano, kelp, and castings, I will just have to guess, I guess.

Elephunt man

12-01-2006, 02:09 AM

Just a little preview of what went down in the 'lab' today.:D

Maybe Gorilla was right, maybe I do need my own forum:o ;) :D .

Shadows

12-01-2006, 12:41 PM

first off, awesome looking plants EM. very nicely done. Lots of great info bouncing between you and Rev there too. gonna have to go back and take notes on some of that stuff..

I gotta ask too tho, what did you use at the base of your buckets to seal them around the pipe? I've been to lowes and HD looking for something like that but didnt know WTF to ask for. Can I even find that stuff at HD/Lowes??

Elephunt man

12-01-2006, 12:56 PM

Thanks Shadows,

I used a rubber grommet I found at my local hardware store, it is 1 1/8 inch inside and about 1 5/8 outside, the largest they had. A 3/4 coupling fits very snug inside. I had to make a few test runs to get exactly the right hole size, I recommend picking up an adjustable hole saw for that.

On the same note, I'm sure all of you have noticed the ridiculous price of aqaurium bulkheads ($10+ each). At lowes or home depot, look in the water heater section for a drain pan fitting, costs less than $3. It has a 1/2 opening and threaded exterior. I went the grommet route, to try to avoid possible root plugs.

Elephunt man

12-01-2006, 06:42 PM

New 'living organics aeroponic thingy' reservoir is done, I should have this thing 'flushing' tonight and ready for some tea and clones tomorrow.

A pic of my 'tea party' too, one has 'Magick Kingdom' mix and the other...well...I'm open to ideas.

Hey Rev, think I should try the sprout tea instead?

12-01-2006, 07:08 PM

come'n along real nice EM :D

do you ever sleep bro?

cant wait to see the aeroponic thingy in action :D

grow on

Elephunt man

12-01-2006, 07:21 PM

Thanks CB, I have always been very hyper/fast metabolism or something:o . Even 4 bad discs hasn't slowed me down.;)

But seriously, this thread was ready to pop with a SOG in soil but I got distracted BIG TIME by Rev and his beautiful plants/methods.

I had 40 gallons of soil and probably 25 clones waiting to start the SOG but now decided I can't use my original soil, and base will take another 3 weeks.

The clones, meanwhile are still waiting and I think a whole forum is also waiting for me to do something:o , so I have been busting ass a little:D .

Don't know what to do about this thread title:( , open to suggestions.

Elephunt man

12-02-2006, 01:02 PM

Obviously designed for 3 bucket depth, any width necessary. Only have 2 buckets connected right now.

Without the neoprene plugs, water goes everywhere, works really well, oxygenated to the max!

Elephunt man

12-02-2006, 02:46 PM

Decided to throw in 1/8 tsp each Karma and Hydroguard this morning, right now entire system only holds 3 gallons. RO water by itself scares me, as nutritious as mars and welcome environment for anything including pathogens.

I think the Magick Tea needs another 12 hours, kinda chilly. Might add just a tsp of that tonight and see what happens.

Elephunt man

12-02-2006, 04:20 PM

Hey Rev,
I put a couple drops of tea on a glass plate and took a look with my 30x lupe hoping to see some beasties, but didn't see any movement:( .

Should I 'smash' the sample between 2 'slides' of glass? Any tips to make this easier? Trying to see if I can tell when the beasties are maximized.

Thanks

Elephunt man

12-03-2006, 03:25 AM

Really hurting today and trying not to take my 'poison' prescriptions, but finally got out of bed, made some coffee and went to work on the grow.

Since I still haven't been able to pick up an HPS bulb for flower room #1, I decided to switch out the 400w hood for my 1kw Hortilux tube. Finally cooling off a little here, and the extra heat will help. I think with these bushy big mothers, I need all the penetration they can get.

On the same note, I decided to flip 3 more mothers to start over organic. Biggie small, Indoor(mutt), and AK48. So now 5 mothers in a 2.5x4 foot room.

While I was moving them around, I decided to take a couple pics of the 2 bagseed mothers that were flipped last weekend. Last pic is of all the ladies huddled together in the 'flood' room while I switched out the lights.

Enjoy.

Elephunt man

12-03-2006, 07:57 PM

Having a much better day today, finally got some $ yesterday and woke up feeling ok so I went shopping:D .

Bought all kinds of fittings and stuff at the depot, and then found a 1800gph pump for $50! This monster has a 1 1/4 inch outlet!:eek: Looks like I can build a bio-bucket setup now, haven't wanted to spend $200 on a big enough pump.

Got sick of my leaky aerocloner so I went searching and found this at K-mart. 'Sunshine' brand it says, wayyy thicker than rubbermaid, $25. Really nice deep lip inside the lid, over an inch, no way this thing is going to leak;) .

2nd pic shows the lid upside down, so you can see the 'fat lip';) .

gorilla

12-03-2006, 08:49 PM

wow, can't wait to see that either elephunt man!

RELAX BRO! :D

Elephunt man

12-03-2006, 09:12 PM

wow, can't wait to see that either elephunt man!

RELAX BRO! :D

Sorry brother, no can do:D . Been working 60-80 hrs a week for over 10 years, I took it easy for about 6 weeks after my injury, but I get bored quick. Guess I miss building stuff.

Tried to get in there and get a good pic before the light warmed up but pic still turned out crappy:o .

5 mothers on 12/12 under 1kw Hortilux:cool:

Elephunt man

12-04-2006, 09:11 PM

Jumped into the flower room right as ballast clicked on and got a much better pick this time, same thing as previous post.

Elephunt man

12-04-2006, 11:59 PM

You peeps might have noticed that on a good night, I might update here 2 or 3 times:rolleyes: .

Might get 3 tonight:cool: .

Very glad CB shared some really good male/female pics with me earlier, because tonight when the light came on I might have freaked. The tiny new growth kinda scares me every time, it starts out round. They seemed to be finally changing a little, here on day 9. Hopefully in a week or two they will really start going and I will buy a real camera:rolleyes: .

All the girls are doing great, little clawing here and there but only 10 or 20% of the plants. When I started, I didn't know about phenos and only germed one seed of every strain:rolleyes: . I can make a couple of assumptions though, I guess. White widow is supposed to be slightly tougher to grow, lttle sensitive to overnuting etc. My WW is the only one out of all the girls who has never missed a beat and has always had great color. I think I might hang on to her for a while;) . On the other hand, AK48 is a complete whiny bitch!:mad: She hates me...I have to constantly mess with her to keep her happy. She is the only one that has ever been flushed and she's had it twice! AK is supposed to be relatively easy, guess that means this is a bad pheno, just a guess though because I have no control group.

Anyway, been moving stuff some more. The remaining 3 mothers are finally 'back home' where they were born in the first room I built. This is the mother/clone room. Vortex from the flower room exhausts through this room and heats the 'LAB' (garage) at night. Finished cloner in the corner, my 'hated' old 1kw ballast, 10x 40w 6500k flouros. The 3 little plants in the middle are bagseed that were 'stunted'. I have been testing all my 'recipes' on them, surprised they look so good.

Enjoy

Elephunt man

12-05-2006, 03:37 AM

Little peview of upcoming madness...

2nd pic is the reason I am trying to hurry:o , love my aerocloner:D .

gorilla

12-05-2006, 09:23 AM

Elephunt man

12-05-2006, 11:59 AM

You sure you're a first timer elephunt? I was going to post: "Your aerocloner looks excellent!", until I scrolled down a bit more and saw those roots. Not only does it look perfect it apparently works great! Whoaaa. I seem to have problems cloning, and my bubble cloner attempt was aboslutely lousy. I'm totally jealous of your 'beginners luck'. :D

Is that as close as you can bring those fluorescent shoplights, Elephunt? Are they the ones that are overdriven? If so, is the light penetration really much better seeing as the output it higher but you need to keep them further away?

Thanks. Good work.
-G

Thanks G!

Those aren't the overdriven flouros, I actually have all the lights in those pics a little high, just trying to slow things down just a tad so I can catch up.:D

The aerocloner is really easy to make, I was thinking about making a super duper basic one out of a bucket that anyone could build. It doesn't have to be as fancy as mine, all pvc, you can use hose.

If ya guys want, we can build one together:) . This is what you will need:

Bucket and lid
Small pump <50gph
1/2" hose, or whatever fits your pump (only need couple feet)
1/2" barbed tee
some misters
You will also need a 'drip line hole punch' or a 11/64 drill bit.
1 to 1 1/2" drill bit or tin snips
pool noodle or pipe insulation (you could set it up for small netpots, if you are a rockwool guy;) )

If you can't get the ez clone replacement nozzles, just go a home improvement center and in the sprinkler section, pick up the LOWEST gph mister they have. Home depot carries a couple different styles, any of them will work, but the lower the flow the better. You will need about 1 mister for every 10gph your pump produces, I have about 24 on a 275 gph Propump.

Some of you guys probably have this stuff laying around, if not, just let me know when you have the parts and I will show you step by step how to build your own kick ass tap water cloner (yep, I said tap)!

The best part about an aerocloner is:

No dome needed
No misting needed
No hormones needed
No water level maintenance needed
No 'fancy clone prep needed'

Yep, no presoak, cuts underwater or any of that crap:D . I just cut a whole handful of clippings (no rush) and stuck them all in their one at a time, no fear of 'stem air bubble' with this thing. Last week I knocked a "T-square" over on one of the girls:( , and chopped off a branch. About 15 minutes later, I remembered the broken branch - picked it up off the floor with no prep, put it in the cloner all wilted and BAM, hour later, back to life;) .

gorilla

12-05-2006, 01:44 PM

Elephunt man

12-05-2006, 01:52 PM

Alright EMan, cool.

One thing. I would think that keeping the lights further away from the plants would actually make them grow taller more quickly than if your lights were right on top of 'em. In that case they don't need to grow up as much as they need to when the lights are further away. Just a thought?

Yes, I agree completely, I forgot that I also had them a little high so I could keep an eye on temps for first day, this room will be warmest at night, but it never went over 82 at canopy:) . Once I move that crappy old ballast, I should get my 75;) . Really should finish my coffee before posting in the morn:o .

Elephunt man

12-06-2006, 11:52 PM

My 'living organics aero thingy' is gonna be REALLY interesting, look at these pics, they are dated.

This is my aerocloner, running way to warm at over 80 degrees, but Rev is right, microbes take care of everything...

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7344&d=1165314981

24 hour root growth after adding microbial tea.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7418&d=1165474089

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7419&d=1165474089

12-07-2006, 04:49 AM

WOW great growth spurt indeed on the roots :eek:

time to plant em up :D

Elephunt man

12-07-2006, 05:50 AM

WOW great growth spurt indeed on the roots :eek:

time to plant em up :D

The Boss requests and I deliver!:D ;) :) Living Organics style!

Elephunt man

12-07-2006, 05:54 AM

As beautiful as this 3' monster is, all males must die....:(

Trunk is between dime and penny at 7 weeks:cool: .

gorilla

12-07-2006, 06:41 AM

very nice, elephunt. and growing weed on the carpet, god bless you for being so careful. I would need a new rug at the end of every grow. :p

Shadows

12-07-2006, 07:12 AM

Hey, I used to have a shower curtain like that, lol..

This microbial tea you mention. is there info in this journal about its contents, make up? Interest is sparked here.

Excellent grow!!
NDS

Elephunt man

12-07-2006, 07:44 AM

Hey, I used to have a shower curtain like that, lol..

This microbial tea you mention. is there info in this journal about its contents, make up? Interest is sparked here.

Excellent grow!!
NDS

Thanks Shadows!

Well,...I'm kinda rollin' on what REV taught me, but I just threw some stuff together, didn't use any particular recipe posted anywhere that I know of. These cuttings had to hang out in there a little longer than I wanted, and I got worried about them. This is what I put in it:

To 10 gallons, I added:

1/8th cup (30ml) Hydrogaurd
1/8th cup (30ml) Liquid Karma
1/8th cup (30ml) Growmore Seaweed Extract
1/8th cup (30ml) Alaskan Fishy Ferts
1 packet Micormax (mycorrhizal innoculate)

I'm going to detail what went into the transplants too later today.

Elephunt man

12-07-2006, 08:14 AM

I came up with a little experiment with my clones I just transplanted. I labeled all pots with a # and a letter, kind of 'logging code'. Gonna post it up here in case I lose mine or something...

1 = White Widow
2 = AK48
3 = Biggie Small
4 = Indoor Mix (sativa dom)
5 = 'little bagseed'
6 = 'big bagseed'

All ferts listed below were sprinkled in the bottom of containers, not mixed in.

A = 2 parts FF Light Warrior, 1 part big perlite, 1 tsp each OGM Rooters and GH Subculture (beastie innoculants) all mixed first
1/2 tsp FF Happy Frog 3-4-3 sprinkled on bottom

B = Same mix above but with 2 tsp FF Happy Frog 3-4-3 sprinked on bottom

C = Same mix above but with 1/2 tsp EB Stone All Purpose 5-5-5 with myco sprinked on bottom

D = 2 parts FF Ocean Forest, 1 part FF Light Warrior, 1 part big perlite, 1 tsp each OGM Rooters and GH Subculture all mixed first
1/2 tsp EB Stone All Purpose 5-5-5 with myco sprinkled on bottom

E = Same mix as above but with 2 tsp EB Stone All Purpose 5-5-5 with myco sprinkled on bottom arond a packet of Micormax innoculant

F = Same mix as above but with 1 packet of Whitney Farms Smart Start myco innoculant 9-3-5 placed on bottom

G = Seedling planted in mix above with no ferts

Not really any kind of real test or anything, just the Mad Scientist goofing off.

:cheeky:

Elephunt man

12-08-2006, 04:07 PM

Trying to get the hang of new camera....soon

Pic taken just after their goodnight 'rain' (thanks Rev).

Elephunt man

12-08-2006, 05:45 PM

Okay, finally made a decision on my dilemna...Thanks to some great help from CB, G, Fred and Q.

Most of you probably don't know, but so far 2 of my 8 mothers have showed they are hermies since I flipped them. One of them is dead, one is 2 weeks in flower. 3 more are 'probably' hermies too, 3 may be female:) . Gonna keep flipping them one by one till I am sure. I have decided to put the hermies into my cab, and let them 'do their thing' and flower out. I will not be collecting seeds or pollen, just don't have a use for my cab right now and want to watch. I attribute the hermies as being genetic from seed, as you can probably tell from 6 weeks of pics, they have NEVER been stressed. Take this with a grain of salt, but I think Dr. Chronic fuked me on genetics...

I have some clones from these 'hermie mothers' that I can put in the cab too, it is either that or kill them.

I started 8 more WW seeds 36 hrs ago and most are popped, gonna plant those tonight too.

So lots left to do tonight, gotta make a choice on lighting for the cab...one 400 and probably few flouros.

I will get some more pics up tonight, should get the hang of this camera by then.

Thanks for ridin' along on my newbie adventure:) , and thanks for your patience and support...especially those who I bug all the time;) .

Elephunt man

12-08-2006, 05:49 PM

very nice, elephunt. and growing weed on the carpet, god bless you for being so careful. I would need a new rug at the end of every grow. :p

Squirt bottles, sprayers and 'slow water method' work killer and keep things clean too..(thanks REV).

12-08-2006, 10:44 PM

got any pics yet bro?

would like to see some good close ups like of these herms :D

grow on

Elephunt man

12-08-2006, 11:34 PM

Not real happy with this cam, probably gonna take it back for upgrade. Either that or I suck as a photographer:o .

Here is the 'freakshow' cabinet, 24k lumens at 3000k no fan, filtered exhaust. One reason I decided to do this is because with the flouros and my terminally low humidity, I can spray this cab and the hermies down whenever I want. I have mylar to go in there, so whenever they are done, I can throw the white plastic away. Little too easy not to do this, cab is flipped by my Coralife timer, opposite my flower room, small evaporative cooler in the corner to keep daytime temps in check.

I will definately keep trying to get better pics as they progress, so far still only balls on one cola on one of them.

Elephunt man

12-09-2006, 03:19 AM

Since I had to move everyone around in the flower room, I decided to switch out the tube for a hood. Got another idea for the tube...

12-09-2006, 08:19 AM

Not real happy with this cam, probably gonna take it back for upgrade. Either that or I suck as a photographer:o .

what kind of digi did ya get bro? and does it have a macro option? .... tripods work great also, even the mini cam's one's for like 10 bucks ;)

peace

Elephunt man

12-09-2006, 09:05 AM

what kind of digi did ya get bro? and does it have a macro option? .... tripods work great also, even the mini cam's one's for like 10 bucks ;)

peace

It is a cheapo polaroid izone 300, cost me like $70 I think. I needed someting with great resolution only, wasn't really interested in all the fancy features in the more spendy ones. Says 3.2mp and 3x zoom. I was going to buy a very basic looking 7mp camera for like $120 I think, I only bought this one because the guy said if it didn't do the job I could take it back. I'm sure this one falls under the 'get what you pay for' category:( .

These pics all came out terrible, at different settings:

I had to toss these 2 clones, they were herms, but looks like they were doing great in the 'aero tea thingy'.

The last pic is of my 'Revster seedling water bottle', it is from an alcohol mixer, has a nice slow pour and a 'carb' to stop splashing. Great for opposite corner watering and root training:) .

reubeni

12-10-2006, 02:33 AM

It is a cheapo polaroid izone 300, cost me like $70 I think. I needed someting with great resolution only, wasn't really interested in all the fancy features in the more spendy ones. Says 3.2mp and 3x zoom. I was going to buy a very basic looking 7mp camera for like $120 I think, I only bought this one because the guy said if it didn't do the job I could take it back. I'm sure this one falls under the 'get what you pay for' category:( .

These pics all came out terrible, at different settings:

:eek: Man those are crappy pics very bad for a new cam take it back and get a refund ;maybe you got a dud one.
Anyways its not only the resolution that maters but more importantly the lens try and get a cam from one of the established photographic brands, my cam only has 3.2 mp but its got a great lens and good macro mode only cost about £110 on eBay there are bargains out there and it pays to surf and research.
By the way nice grow pity about the shims but it happens to all of us once in a while peace bro.

Elephunt man

12-10-2006, 07:15 AM

Thanks for droppin' in Rueben, been checking out your journal too and wanted to say congrats' on the beans popping. I hope you get a male so I can watch you breed it, but I hope you only get one male;) .

I will return the cam, guess I need one for the inexperienced photographer...and thanks for the tip, definately going to ask for macro this time.

I wanted to say that the hermies are probably gonna be slayed soon...I understand it is pretty pointless to carry on with them. I am going to keep the one around a little while, to see if it is in fact a pollinated female or not, but as soon as it shows balls anywhere other than the one cola it gets the axe. I guess I am just a sentimental guy and needed a couple days to accept their fate...freaks or not, they are still very beautiful and will always be my babies:( .

I don't know why I didn't do this a long time ago...I'm sure I am not the first person to think of it but wanted to let everyone know, mylar on your flouros works insanely well. I used 3M spray adhesive and WOW, incredibly brighter. I can say from using overdriven flouros, that these appear as bright:eek: . Some pictures below with just one bulb...painful to my eyes:cool: . Waiting for the adhesive to have a good cure before trimming the edge off.

12-10-2006, 08:02 AM

I don't know why I didn't do this a long time ago...I'm sure I am not the first person to think of it but wanted to let everyone know, mylar on your flouros works insanely well. adhesive to have a good cure before trimming the edge off.

First thing that comes to mind is FIRE danger :eek:

Elephunt man

12-10-2006, 08:52 AM

First thing that comes to mind is FIRE danger :eek:

Yikes, thanks for the warning and chat...I had some misconceptions about mylar:o , feel free to delete that whole thing if you want, I would hate to give anyone a bad idea:( .

gorilla

12-10-2006, 10:52 AM

fire hazard from a fluorescent light?

Elephunt man

12-11-2006, 03:37 PM

fire hazard from a fluorescent light?

Actually G, I tend to agree with you there...but of course, if ANY doubt...safety first:) , so the light will not be used.

I've been really busy trying to regroup, I've spent a week in mourning and said my goodbyes to the remaining males:o . Yeah, I said males...please forgive me guys, but I have misidentifying them:slap: . This is my first time and I basically missed the preflowers:rolleyes: . Just really sad because I vegged these guys for almost 2 months from seed and they were 2 - 3 feet tall:eek: and BEAUTIFUL.:cry:

The good news is, I have 3 left...2 females, Blue Mystic and 'Indoor Mix' (some kind of strong heat tolreant sativa). Also, I still have the 'Mystery plant', a bagseed that is my biggest plant, 3 weeks into flower and over 3 feet tall. It has one main cola that has <10 balls and the rest of it is coming along beautifully with pistols everywhere. I don't know if it is a pollinated female or a hermie, but it will finish in a cab by itself. I don't exactly know what to expect, if it will drop pollen or finish with one seeded bud:watch: , but as long as it continues to produce pistils and no more balls show up, I will let it finish.

The other 2 mothers are going to be finished, everything from now on will be 'Living Organics' I hope.

The indoor mix plant came from a pack of 10 mixed seeds from 'doc chronic', out of the pack only 2 germinated, I am pretty sure the same strain, I think the rest were old. All 5 other 10 packs he sent me including the freebies, have had 100% germ rate. This is the description from his site of the indoor mix:

We have put together 5 of our most popular indoor varieties in one package! These popular selections are, Master Kush, Afghan, Pure Power Plant and Skunk #1, and Nirvana Special! This selection provides you excellent varieties as well as quality genetics, which in turn will bring you pleasure and your indoor garden to life. These quality seed selections are suitable for a variety of growing methods year round. An outstanding selection and value!

I have no idea what she is, but she appears to be very sativa, if not pure sativa. I had an incident with temps a week ago and burned them all except her, she has very thin leaves and lanky like a corn stalk. She is very tough too, never any nute problems with her. I will post a pic of her tonight once the light come on, but in the meantime here is a pic of one of her clones next to the other seed that made it. Both in LO. I think this is going to be the strain for me for now, given her heat resistance and my desert location, but I have going to go ahead and germ everything else I have, to look for a few good phenos. Just planted 6 more WW, pics will start up after they break ground. Same crappy camera:rolleyes: , no yellowing.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7673&d=1165876243

reubeni

12-11-2006, 05:23 PM

Very nice!:mmmm:

12-11-2006, 06:12 PM

jump right back in the saddle bro and grow on...

the mylar thang might not be that big of a deal but the msds says somit about continued exposer above 120 is bad...

pretty sure the tents for fire fighters are not the same as what we use to grow.... at least mine was much more beefer like but even those can burn too :eek:

had a hermie sneak in on me a couple grows back like and now have some killer hash from it :cool:

grow on:pass:

Elephunt man

12-12-2006, 05:58 AM

Thanks guys:) . I had some good conversation today. First with CB, then a long chat with Fred. I think I finally understand the title of CB's grow journal "Time to relax". What a fitting title! Sometimes it is hard for me to remamber to have fun and not worry. Then I got my head clear and did a little chatting with Fred...I like Fred, he has a really open mind. He got me to thinking out loud with him and I kind of came up with some theories about living organics. Inspired me to try some even weirder stuff.

I have picked up alot from REV, many things I still don't understand and definately more reading to do, but I decided to say WTF, have some fun and try something. Whenever I am not sure about something, I just fall back on instinct and do what my grandmother taught me in the garden.

Momma 'big sativa' is looking little big for her 2 gallon pot and one week in flower she is just starting to stretch, so I decided to transplant her.

I mixed something like this in the first layer on the bottom:

1 part steer manure
1 part earthworm casings
1 part topsoil
1 tsp FF High P guano with myco
1 tsp seabird guano
1 tsp eb stone High N guano with myco
1 tsp bone meal
1 tsp blood meal
2 tsp greensand
1 tsp oyster shells
1 tsp hydrated lime
2 tsp cottonseed meal
1 tsp plant savers with myco
1 tsp eb stone all purpose plant food with myco
1/2 tsp eb stone cal/mg/so
1 tsp OGM rooters innoculant
pinch of GH Subculture

I mixed all this in small layer on bottom, on top of this I added

2 big handfuls of 3 week old basemix

Then, I put a thin layer of this mix around root ball and on top

1 part FF Ocean Forest
1 part FF Light Warrior with myco
1 part big perlite/vermiculite mix
1 tsp OGM Rooters (scratched at roots and sprinkled some on them)
1 tsp GH Subculture (scratched at roots and sprinkled some on them)

So there it is...don't know what will happen, but I'm not going to worry about it.

I took her clones and gave them their first tea today, and srinkled a little rooters down the sides of the containers.

Here are some pics of 'Big Sativa', I did a little reading today trying to identify her strain, she is one of the 5 listed above from Dr. Chronic's Indoor Mix....I'm guessing she is Skunk 1 and Power Plant, or Nirvana Special. Anyone got a guess?

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7686&d=1165927737

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7687&d=1165927899

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7688&d=1165927899

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=7689&d=1165927969

The Hooded Claw

12-12-2006, 03:53 PM

The Hooded Claw

12-12-2006, 04:11 PM

That wasn't a reflection on your plants Elephus! If it's a PPP its looking good!

Elephunt man

12-12-2006, 04:12 PM

Well the leaves are Sativa no doubt there. It also looks like the Power Plants from Nirvana that I topped on and around the cusp of 12/12. I didn't like the look of them myself. When you top a power plant (IME) they grow like a complete dip shit with no form to them whatsoever. They're good at recovering into twin top colas but an arse further down IMHO.

They still smoked a gooden though!! ;)

Thanks, I really like her, she is tough as nails...great for a newbie like me:) .

I did top her, only I was too late...still she seems to be getting pretty good light everywhere, hope she makes it in her new mix. My thinking is that by the time her roots make it to the goodies in the bottom, they will be so heavily innnoculated with beasties, that she will not be allowed to gorge herself. In a day or two I am going to give her a weak but heavily innocculated tea and then hopefully RO water till she's done. Unless my plan backfires and she gets fried to a crisp:eek: .

rolanterroy

12-12-2006, 04:21 PM

Your bottom layer is really chalked full O stuff, hydrated lime can be trickey to use indoors my friend, so careful; dolomite is safer, more forgiving.

One thing I see ...just a small thing, between the bottom layer, and where you place the rootball, I always like to have a really mellow layer of something like

1 part topsoil
1 part earthworm castings
1 part 50/50 vermiculite/perlite
like a teaspoon of mellow all purpose like PoM 5-5-5

Also I would have gone more like 2 heaping Tablespoons (maybe three) of cottonseed meal and about 1/4 cup of oyster shells. I also would have added some Kelp meal in the bottom as well for a broadband trace and alternate K source.

But it looks pretty good bro! 2thumbs That plant *appears* to have some S.E.Asian sativa in her, those sats as a rule of thumb like many sats, preferr a lot of food in medium to long release elements down low. She will dig on that steer manure 4sure. Remember it takes about 2 weeks for the beasties to really balance out and become a mini-biosphere forming an active soil-food-web. It's not uncommon for the soilmix to "PoP" and take an initial dive in pH but the hydrated lime should handle that all good, but you may see some initial reactions like leaves wavey, turning sideways, etc ...no worries, it's like a peep getting into a hot jacuzzi heh heh, Ohh oooH OOhhhhHOOoo Yeahhhhhhhhhhh! :D

I wouldn't hit her with tea too fast, not for atleast a week or so, but no harm if ya do, it's just beter I find to let the present beasties get kinda comfy and then Boom them with tea, cuz tea too soon seems to me to inturrupt the natural balance forming and slowes down the beasties from actually "colonizing" in the numbers and in the balance they will adjust to according to their environment.

NIce complex mix there bro, makes me smile that you pulled that off so well! :p - there are a few things in there I dunno about but for the most part from what I can see it looks coolio! Great job!

- REvster

Elephunt man

12-12-2006, 04:33 PM

Wow! From the man himself...this is me::) :jam: :cheeky: :crazydan: :cheers:

It was pretty late when I did this and later when I posted about it...The third mix I described 'round the rootball' is actually in a layer under her too, right on the other 2 layers.

I was checkin' out my basemix and there is a nice patch of 'silver white' fungi under a dry corn cob. The stuff cooled off about 2 weeks ago so I decided to use it last night.

I have another 50 gal tote with a few chopped up males on one side, and some old soil on the other...I was thinking about tossing some red worms in there once it all dries.

rolanterroy

12-12-2006, 04:58 PM

Heh heh yeah bro, I see you did your homework and I can tell you were covering your bases with all that. As you continue you will start to see things that work well together in your environment and your mix will simplify, but outta the gate I am a big believer in actually overcomplicating things, this way it will give you a big grip of many of the nuances involved. Your sulphur is much better acheived via Bio-Fish and/or Fish Bone Meal, or any fishy product like those that retains sulphur from the processes using the whole fish to break down. I forget if it's the enzymatic breakdown of the fishys to nutes or the other way, but one of them, the way Bio-Fish and Fish Bone Meal (Down to Earth both) are made as well as the way Alaskan Fishy Ferts (liquid 5-1-1) are made.

Much more Beasty friendly source of sulphur comes with many fishy products. I don't like adding straight up Ca-Mg-S products myself, but preferr stuff like Bonemeal, Fishy Ferts and Dolomite lime to handle those things for me. Really easy to use too much or too little CalMagSulph and I notice root fungi will not occupy roots that pass through or near zones of this type of aditive. Whereas they thrive in the fishy ferts zones with the roots.

Can't wait to see how she looks when she "finds" your bottom layer heh heh. You can always tell when that happens LoL! :D

LoL excellent about the fungi and the cob! 2thumbs

- REvster

Elephunt man

12-12-2006, 05:23 PM

Wow...your right REV, I forgot the fishy ferts, and the kelp, stuff from the fridge:mad: .Maybe some tea... Oh well, her clones are right behind her. I think the cal/mg stuff was me being paranoid:o , I have been thinking of using like 1/4 tap mixed with RO water for traces. I don't know...

I have so much going on right now, about to setup an aero-bucket thingy with a NFT lava rock 'bio-bed' and I have a whole fridge full of organic hydro nutes. Pure Blend, Pure Blend Pro, Bio-Bizz, Karma, Hydrogaurd, Cal/Mg , Fish-mix, Big Bloom, Fishy ferts, Green Fuse etc.:D Gonna hammer it with Subculture and hope for the best! Since buying PBP I seem to have found some info saying it is not 100% organic, but it sounds like my ppm meter will work with it so maybe I will just learn more about a strains needs, for a next run with homemade mix (teas).

rolanterroy

12-13-2006, 12:06 PM

Elephunt man

12-13-2006, 06:39 PM

Remember brohammerski, the combo of Fishy Ferts and Seaweed/Kelp extract alone is basically a "complete" formula for vegging; pretty simple and very effective combo to space ya stoner heh heh.

- REvster

Your right;) , pretty toasted when I went for that transplant...didn't even have my notes out:mad: . Lucky I posted right after, I would have never remembered what I put in there.:p

I am going to take a much more conservative approach with her clones:) , although I did notice, out of all 5 clones, no variance at all in growth. Even though a couple of them were spiked pretty hard (2 tsp of ferts in 3" pot:eek: ).

A freind sent some pics to my phone, thought I would post them up:p

:cheeky:

rolanterroy

12-13-2006, 06:53 PM

12-13-2006, 08:16 PM

I think I finally understand the title of CB's grow journal "Time to relax". What a fitting title! Sometimes it is hard for me to remamber to have fun and not worry.

Say EM,

to me my grow is a tropical stress free place for me to just chill out and be in peace....

miss's and I both like to just crank up some tunes and hang in the mid day lights of the hps light's and gentle tropic breeze that brings the sweet smell of budage

got a recliner and small tv and dvd player as well in there and watch movies up there at times :p

a form of meditation I guess..... inner peace with one's self :D

grow on bro

:pass:

gorilla

12-13-2006, 08:55 PM

a form of meditation I guess..... inner peace with one's self ... hippy.

Elephunt man

12-13-2006, 10:17 PM

As long as the whole living soil food web of microlife is all happy bro, they will balance out EVERYTHING as long as it is present. Never underestimate the power of the microlife to do all the hard work! :) - Just add water! hahahah.. :p

- REvster

YES! So glad to hear you say that:) . That is pretty much the whole idea behind what I am doing now, let beasties handle amounts and availability. I am hoping to get away with little teas at all...just some kind of 'easy newbie way' I figured out to try. I am a firm believer in transplanting often anyway, so it's fun to try different mixes and watch the results:) ;) . Instead of really working on an even balance of food, right now I am just trying to keep populations as high and diversified as possible. Probably the hard way too learn how to do it...but I'm having fun:) . I look forward to watching your progress on the 'low nute, heavy tea' direction you seem to be heading. I also can't wait to hear more about the 'fungi dominan