SImple Bubble Cloner

[rolanterroy]

Got Cat? Heh heh OK, here's the container I like best for this set up, but I will also show you some other options in a bit, but first, on to the tutorial of thei easy to build (20 min) and cheap ($12.00) Bubble Cloner that works like a dream!

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4708&stc=1&d=1152122696

Below is the best adheisive to use for this in my opinion, and it MUST SAY Aquarium Grade to be totally inert.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4709&stc=1&d=1152122696

Below, you can get these little kits at even supermarkets...

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4710&stc=1&d=1152122696

Below is a basic dual-output air pump from Wal-mart, I have used some airline and a T-Fitting from the kit to make it one output heh heh

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4711&stc=1&d=1152122696

Below, you can see on the inside how I have mounted an air-curtain (Wal-mart $2.50) to the "floor" with a couple suction cups from the kit, and I also siliconed them and allowed to dry 48 hrs before use.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4712&stc=1&d=1152122696

Below is how you cut the larger tubing, and you can get tubing this size from any aquarium or pet store that has fish and tanks/pumps etc.

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4713&stc=1&d=1152122696

Below is how they fit into the holes drilled into the top of the container...

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4714&stc=1&d=1152122696

Below is the finished cloner filled with bottled springwater or tap water (if tap water is used allow to bubble for 24 hrs B4 placing cuttings to remove chlorine.) Vwalla! Water level shoul be within a couple inches of the bottoms of the cuttings and if the cuttings actually go into the water a bit that's fine too!

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4715&stc=1&d=1152122696

- REv :smoke1:

[rolanterroy]

Below is a pre-fab Aero-Rooter, about $150.00 complete. The light I have above it is just an energy saver bulb that replaces a 60w bulb in a simple reflector left on 24hrs a day...

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4716&stc=1&d=1152123566

There are other variations in the thumbnails below so it's flexible and my favorite variation is the little Foldgers Coffe Can (plastic) and it rocks too!

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4719&stc=1&d=1152123566

Below is how ya set up the inside of this one...

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4720&stc=1&d=1152123566

- REv :smoke1:

[gorilla]

Whats up rolanterroy. Nice stuff, and I have a few questions for you.

How much do you allow the roots to grow before transplant? For soil/hydro?

Is the 4 gallon bucket overkill in size?

[drumin]

I have a few questions too.
Q. What's the point of the bubbler? Is it to make the water more oxygenated?
Q. Why do you recommend keeping the stem above the water instead of right in it?
Q. what is the larger tubing for and why cut it that way?

[rolanterroy]

Whats up rolanterroy. Nice stuff, and I have a few questions for you.

How much do you allow the roots to grow before transplant? For soil/hydro?

Is the 4 gallon bucket overkill in size?

Yeah OK, good Q's mang and you reminded me of a really different perspective too...

You see, I am a breeder, so when I run cloners they are 24hrs a day, 7 days a week, continuously having clones roll in and out of them at all different stages. So I pretty much just forget all about them. The larger size for me is needed really, because A: I don't have enough extra time in the grow to schedule in regular cloning maintenence stuff and that includes things like evaporation and such which would always get me if it were not for the size.

I also like the distance the bubbles have to travel vertically as they REALLY explode at the surface with a greater "burst" of mist than when in shallower water.

But....

If you were a peep who didn't run continuous system dynamics like me, ya know rotating harvests, rotating clones, all at diff ages and states yada yada, and you just wanted to roll through 6-12 clones every month or two, then just a couple of those Foldger's Coffee Can ones would be fine!

ROOT DEVELOPEMENT...

I have planted them all the way from just a few roots, like 3, about 1" (max) long, al the way until I had to actually sever some of the (10" at least) roots all wrapped around the pump and stuff LoL! They all rooted fine and dandy, no worries.

It's just VERY imortant to remember that sprouts and freshly rooted clones will NOT TOLERATE a couple things:

SOilmix Over compacted!

Soilmix Too Hot

Now in HYDRO.... You should just let the roots develop to the length that best fits whatever medium you are gonna place them into, like Rockwool, Hydroton, whatever, ya dig?

You can also keep clones in the cloners for a pretty long time if ya need to, I will add tiney doses of Fox Farms Grow Big at ratio of about 1/4 teaspoon per 4 gallons about once very two months, so this allowes me to keep clones in there realy longtime if I need too heh heh. But, no nutes are needed for normal operation, no gels, or nothin' ...No misting or domes, just set and forget mang! :)

- REv :smoke1:

[rolanterroy]

I have a few questions too.
Q. What's the point of the bubbler? Is it to make the water more oxygenated?
Q. Why do you recommend keeping the stem above the water instead of right in it?
Q. what is the larger tubing for and why cut it that way?


It's really the "mist" from the bubbles exploding on the surface you are after for the fastest rooting. Ones actullay IN the water will take a couple extra days in my experience.

The larger tubing is for the Collars that actually hold the plant in place designed for easy insert and removal with minimal disturbance to the system operation. ;)

- REv :smoke1:

[gorilla]

Thanks for the great answer brother. :gthumb:

[CB]

some great info and DIY how to indeed

havnt tried a semi aero cloner (so to speak) yet but can see it is a simple thing indeed :D

gonna give this a try after summer for sure :D

:share:

[Buddy]

Below is a pre-fab Aero-Rooter, about $150.00 complete. The light I have above it is just an energy saver bulb that replaces a 60w bulb in a simple reflector left on 24hrs a day...


There are other variations in the thumbnails below so it's flexible and my favorite variation is the little Foldgers Coffe Can (plastic) and it rocks too!



Below is how ya set up the inside of this one...



- REv :smoke1:\

Awesome stuff, man! I LOVE it. That folgers can is sweet, really spectacular post. I'm gonna have to go build something now...
Peace,
Buddy

[rolanterroy]

:) Cool guys glad you all dig on it! Just remember the mojo for this set up is, set and forget LoL! If ya fugg with it too much your results won't be as fast or good. Don't pH the water, no gels or hormones, nada, nuthin' just let her fly and check it about once a week for roots; just top off the water whenever needed. I absolutely recommend bottled springwater for this set up, but the tap water works all good too as per above.

- REv :smoke1:

[Profound]

BUMP....I did this with a smaller tupperware container and it worked great with my airstone and aged pHed water

[periodically insane]

Thanks Rev! Made one of these from plastic cat food container, and it works great! Had roots in 8 days :D

[rolanterroy]

Right on Amigo! Yeah, once ya get one of these up and running you kick yourself in the ass for not doing it sooner hahahaha!

Glad you are diggin' on it bro, truly no muss no fuss cloning!

- REv :smoke1:

[rolanterroy]

Let me add here, that if you ever need to clean an airstone or air curtain, simply soak it for 24 hours in H2O2 (Hydrogen Peroxide) and vwallah, brand new again! :gthumb:


- REv :smoke1:

[Thoth]

For the record, I tried this with a small folgers plastic coffee can and an air stone at the bottom.

Didn't work, took weeks to No avail before I gave up on my dying clones. :dunce:

[drumin]

Don't feel bad, I built one and gave up after watching clones die for 2 weeks. In jiffy pellets I'm ready to pot them after about 5-6 days. :grow:

[rolanterroy]

Yep, for whatever reasons some peeps just can't make it work for them; I can't imagine why, but I get a few who just can't get it to work for them. It blows my mind, but it's a fact.

- REv :smoke1:

[midwestbluntman]

Ive found with mine that the water temps need to stay in the upper 70's.water temps below 75 degrees or so will slow the rooting down considerably.I have an aquarium heater installed and it holds the water temps to perfection.I guess you can get as elabrate as you want in your design.Ive also noticed that a foliar feeding of weak nutes help them to maintain there green color while rooting.You'll still get a bit of yellowing leaves but nothing like without.One other thing that i thought id mention,dont go from your 50 watt cloning light to a high powered HID,I done that with 2 NLxShiva clones and they were dead by the next morning.shrivelled up sticks is what i found sticking out the bubbler the next morning.

[rolanterroy]

All great points amigo, yeah those temps are super important no doubt; also NO nutrients at all in the water or rooting hormones used whatsoever; but like you said I have foliar fed lightly before with a super-mellow nutrient solution.

Another thing is do not dome them up at all or mist them regularly either. Great point about the light too, here's the bulb I use with great success...

http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6468&stc=1&d=1162081270

At a height of about 2' or so from the cutting tops. As you said and learned yourself heh heh, it's super important to ease them into being under HID lighting or sunlight for sure.

Make sure if you use tap water you let it bubble for 24 hrs before adding the cuttings to remove chlorine from the water and my personal favorite to use that springs roots from lower cuttings in just a few days is generic bottled springwater from the grocery store. The elements in spring water encourage the roots to healthy and faster growth; distilled water is not a good option, it will work, but not nearly as well I have found.

- REv :smoke1:

[midwestbluntman]

I use the exact bulbs man thats cool,from there they go to my veg cab which is about 250 watts of cfl's then to the flower room under the HID.The fastest i got roots is 7 days in the cloner but ive seen some get roots in 5.I agree with drummin tho you cant beat them jiffies if you just need a few clones.In rev's situation tho the cloner is the best way,stick um and forget um.I use the cloner mainly because i grow mediumless,no R/W or anything.just a neoprene collar to hold it in the system.

[gorilla]

Honestly not trying to nit-pick! :p But... Another thing is do not dome them up at all or mist them regularly either. Great point about the light too, here's the bulb I use with great success... I think this is a subject open to debate. Are you suggesting to not use domes only when using a bubbler cloner or all cloning methods? And because i'm curious, why?

:peace:

[rolanterroy]

Honestly not trying to nit-pick! :p But... I think this is a subject open to debate. Are you suggesting to not use domes only when using a bubbler cloner or all cloning methods? And because i'm curious, why?

:peace:


When you dome cuttings, the reason you are doing that is to slow down their transpiration rates ("plant breathing") because they have no roots so they cannot uptake the water they need to breathe (transpire) normally. The dome elevates humidity to 100% - in any bubble or aero cloner, it is absolutely not needed. A plant not breathing is a plant also not growing. This includes roots.

So your goals in any cloning dynamic are to balance things like humidity, light, heat etc to allow *just* enough transpiration to allow the lant to grow without overtaxing it's abilities to take up water. In an aero or bubble cloner using a light source like the one I posted above, a "perfect" balance is achieved, hence roots spring forth in a matter of a few days from totally healthy cuttings that have never even wilted one bit; which is a very important part of it IMHO.

Occasional misting is always a better option for faster rooting other ways like in jiffys or RockWoll etc. cuz it still allowes the plants (cuttings) to breath and therefore grow.

Dome-ing up sprouts is another booboo many growers make in my opinion, you want those fuckers to breathe breathe breathe breathe as much as possible so they will grow grow grow all healthy.

You can ease the burden on rooting cuttings many ways, like increasing light distance, lowering ambient temps, raising humidity (not to 100% like a dome does) lowering light intensity or wattage... stuff like that.

Ya see there is a not too well known thing that can happen to cuttings that haver a hard time rooting, and when I say hard time I mean severe wilting, severe cannabilization, and taking 30 days plus to root and that's called Somatic Mutation, it's mutations on a cellular level, and inheritable and 99.99999% of the time it's bad, like losss of vigor, resistances, potency, overall health, yields etc.

So it's important to have your cloning tactics dialed in well or all future generations from damaged clones will suffer if the cuttings experience severe shock during rooting.

I have used domes before rooting in rockwool in the dry high deserts of SoCali, and I would just drill a few holes in the domes to allow *some* transpiration and my domes would heavily raise the humidity, but not to the all life stopping 100% mark, more like 90% which is worlds better than 100%

- REv :smoke1:

[midwestbluntman]

Ya see there is a not too well known thing that can happen to cuttings that haver a hard time rooting, and when I say hard time I mean severe wilting, severe cannabilization, and taking 30 days plus to root and that's called Somatic Mutation, it's mutations on a cellular level, and inheritable and 99.99999% of the time it's bad, like losss of vigor, resistances, potency, overall health, yields etc.

So it's important to have your cloning tactics dialed in well or all future generations from damaged clones will suffer if the cuttings experience severe shock during rooting.

Thats pretty inforative rite there,I hadnt thought about that.I'll grab some piccies tonight,I have 3 cuttings that have experienced exactly what we are talking about.just got roots on all 3 last night,been rooting since 9/26.I started 3 more friday eve so maybe ill grab pix tonight and wait till the other 3 root for a comparision shots to post.There problem was cold water temps,I set the heater in the cloner last weekend and the 3rd one rooted over the course of saturday night,the other 2 had roots friday when i took the last 3 cuttings.But,I dont have the system together to put them in rite now so i guess they will live in the cloner for a few more days.for real tho,if what you said is true then maybe i should discard them rather than try'n to grow them out.

[rolanterroy]

Yeah bro, there is an up side and a down side to the Somatic Mutation thing...

Up Side is, it doesn't happen too often, prolly something like 1 out of 20 supershocked cuttings.

Down Side is, the most common effects that I have seen are, loss of potency/resin production and loss of overall resistances and sometimes sexual mutations like hermies will spring up.

Every once in a great while, like lotto odds, something really trippy can happen that's not bad, like wild coloration effects.

Like if you start off with a great strain and after cloning it poorly a few times you start to notice it strts to not be the same strain you dug on prior, or has a super hard time with heat stress or whatever, prolly is the answer.

** Also on a side note here, just in case you are not hep to this, taking clones from the top of the plant are much harder to root than ones taken from the bottom axial branches because of the mobile nutrient Nitrogen. In areas of the plant where it is active and concentrated it will inhibit roots forming. **

In an aero or bubble cloner, the 30days to root thing is not as cut and dry, because in aero or bubble cloners the cutting never experience any shocks like they do in other forms of cloning, so you can much more likely get away with a cutting that takes 30 days+ to root. SOmetimes when I top my plants I will toss those apical tops in my aero cloner and those suckers always take at least 20 days to root, but as long as they are rooted within 35 days and haven't wilted or tweaked out badly I will use them without fear.

- REv :smoke1:

[Shadows]

Great info rolanterroy. never heard of that mutation thing from cloning stress before. Cant say I've ever experienced it either, but to date my longest cutting has taken 25 days to root, typically because I would remove it from the medium constantly checking for roots.

As for dominant apic cuttings, I always take the first cutting from a "from seed" plant as the dominant apic. I've had secondary clones never exhibit 7fingers per leaf, while the dominant apic would produce 9. With that, I've always considered the dom apic the "Choice" clone with the dominant genetic line. Future generations of this plant will also come from the "Choice" clone location for me. Typical rooting time ranges from 5 days to 13 days now, regardless of the cutting location.

I will also, if planned, feed the donor plant a 1/2 stregnth dose of flower ferts 2-3 days before taking the cutting. This doesnt seem to speed up the rooting process, but it does seem to have an impact on the speed in which the root mass grows, compared to one not done in that manner.

not knocking your info, just trying to add to it bro...

[rolanterroy]

In cloning just like in growing, no rules are absolute ;) and rooting cutting has a lot to do with a wide range of factors including genetics as a big part. I notice the cutting location thing bigtime "most" of the time, but with a few strains it really don't matter one bit ..no mater where I take them from they root in identicle time frames.

I love your flowering fert application just before taking the cutting, I can totally see in my head how that would work out great since P is a major "fuel" the plant uses to produce roots and as long as I already had sexed the plant I may try that one mydamnself! :gthumb:

But with many of my strains I see a HUGE difference in the cutting location, bottom axials take like 3-4 days to root off the same plant where the apical cutting takes 20 days, over and over I have seen it so I am pretty sure it's true. But again, this is very strain dependant and environmentally too.

As far as blade count and "preferred" locations, I am on the fence about this one, many *experts* have stated this is purely environmental and mostly has to do with Lumens x Photoperiod, I am inclined to agree; however, I have, several times in the past had a single axial branch express a whirrled node expression, and taking a cutting from that branch retains that expression while any other branch will never show it, even down the line. But aside from that, any branch I take always turnes out to be a carbon copy of the mother in every way with no variations whatsoever. If the axial was a spindly lower then it just needs to play catch-up for a week or two after getting her roots down to start expressing fully the morphology of the mother (or father) the clone was taken from.

Thanks for the tip on the flowering ferts thing heh heh, I am gonna give that a little field testing here myself. ;)

- REv :smoke1:

[Naturalhi]

Yep, for whatever reasons some peeps just can't make it work for them; I can't imagine why, but I get a few who just can't get it to work for them. It blows my mind, but it's a fact.

- REv :smoke1:

Could it be that the ones that don't work are too far away from bursting bubbles? Or that reserviors need a water float valve to keep water at perfect level for bubbling?

[tHEaNIMICnEEDLE]

ANY WAYS TO MINIMIZE THE CHANCES OF MOLD GROWING

I notice the dome method, and other "coverings" to trap humidity can also contribute big time to mold development and leaf death

so I clone with root hormone and peat pellets still but i dont cover them or trap in humidity, I try to just keep the bottoms of the peat wet and the tops drier (for air)

any ideas cause it pisses me off to check them clones every 4 hours to be sure they aint dried out!!! Id like to trap more humididty

hrm

[rolanterroy]

Yeah that's just it naturalhi, it *could* be a lot of different little mistakes, cuz I know it works like a champ when it's built and used according to specs.

HUMIDITY x MOLD Warz...

Yeah bro there are several counters to your prollem I know of. First of all you *likely* don't need a dome. Water is heavier than air, so it will "settle" for the greater part in an open top cotainer with "walls" like a tupperware or a small tote type of thingee. As long as the "walls" of this container are about 6" high, just place the cuttings in there and if you see them wilting at all just mist them here and there. But if your ambient temps are too high and or your ambient humidity is too low this could be a death sentence.

Here's what I like to do myself, and what I did in the high deserts of SoCali.....

I used small RockWool cubes. I used a smallish glass baking dish, about 12" x 9" or so and the "walls" of it were about 4" tall.....

Take the Rockwool Cubes and soak them for 24 hrs in a gallon of bottled springwater with 2 teaspoons of Vinegar added (White Distilled or Apple Cider) then rinse them pretty well with distilled or Reverse Osmosis water.

Take your cuttings and make sure the stem goes down 3/4 of the way to the bottom of the cubes, then fill the baking dish with enough water (distilled or reverse osmosis) so that the water level comes up to about 1/3rd (of the cubes) submerging the bottoms of the Rockwool cubes.

Depending on your ambient humidity you may have to mist ocassionally but I rarely needed to. After about 5 days bring your water level lower to only submerge about 1/5th of the bottoms of the cubes; if all is well within about 6 hrs of doing this you can be pretty sure your cuttings are rooting OK.

Hope that helps ya cuz I am NOT a fan of sealed off domes ever! *IF* you must use them just use them until plants recover from wilting, then remove the dome and mist them, repeat this cycle as needed and soon they will be able to stand on their own, but my above method is pretty bulletproof and my sucess rates were very high using it.

Good luck amigo!

- REv :smoke1:

[Mr. Bud]

Here is the one that I made.. I haven't had great luck with mine.. Keeping water at 80, even blacked out holes so roots wouldnt have any light getting to them.. One thing that I have noticed with mine is that some of the holes always produce clones with roots and some other holes very seldom have clones with roots.. Still working on it...

[thecowboy]

This is my little home made cloner,[ ala REv] just 9 holes ,but that`s enough for me.
Now I was like alot of people and could`nt get clone`s to root...even with this little dohickey...but the last 2 times have been 100%.
What I do now is after they have been in the cloner for 3 days I`ll add 3 drops of kelp extract...that`s 3 drops not mils or tsps...drops... [by the way I use 1 1/4 gals h20 in cloner] and then I`ll wait 2 more day`s then I`ll add 3 drops of hydrogen peroxide[ h202]... again drops... then in about 5 to 10 day`s ...[depending on strain] wha la you got root`s.Not sure what it is but I think the roots sprout to get the bit of kelp food then the H202 speeds up the growth with the extra oxygen.
This system has yet to fail to produce roots.
Mr.Bud...when my clones only produce roots on the 1 side of cloner ...I just turn the lid around...some times 2 or 3 times during a session of cloning.
Hope this helps someone.
Have a good day all.
thecowboy

[Mr. Bud]

Well that's thinking outside the box, just turn the lid... lol.. That was to easy..
Is the red kelp extract the same as the root hormone gel? I have rooting gel that says it has red seaweed in it..

This last time; with only three clone in, I poured some stuff I got called Root Grow ( I think, its upstairs not sure if that's the name) made by Doc's. The stocks had little bumps that you could barely see. I put that in and checked them two days later and the roots where about an inch to inch and a half long.. Couldn't believe how fast the roots took off..

[Sticky's_Queen]

:bananna::bananna::bananna: