Leaf Curling - Help!

[drumin]

So I went to put my plants out in the sun this morning and found what I think is heat damage but they aren't exposed to enough heat (imho). The two seedlings were under a 40watt fluoro at about 6inch distance and the larger plant was about 2ft away and at about a 45 degree angle.

I had another large plant sitting next to this big one and it showed no curling and I have 6 more seedlings that weren't affected.

I'm at a loss...:(

[AzGrowa]

hey drumin,

look like the plants got TOO much heat. Going from a 40-watt floro to direct sunlight is quite a shock for your plants. This time of year there should be enough sunlinght to grow with out the additional time under a floro.
If you can keep the plants in the sunshine I would do that rather than going between floro and sunlight. There is such a difference in light intensiy between sunlight and floro that plants need to acclimate to the more intense sunlight.
But you would have to acclimate them to direct sun over a 1-2 week period.
Just gradually give the plants more sun time and ween them off the floro.
The difference in yeild will be amazing. The more mature a plant the less likely it will show heat stress.

[drumin]

Hey thanks for the input AG, here's the odd thing, I've been growing these 2 bigger plants this way (taking them out every morning, putting them under the fluoro everynight) for over a month.
The last 3 days it's been raining so I've been taking them out but leaving them under the awning so they still get sunlight.
Night before last one of the seedlings had the leaf curl so I thought maybe it got too close to the Fluoro so I raised the fluoro up and this morning both the tall plants and one of the other seedlings had this curl going on and the big plants weren't even near the light.
Another odd thing is that it looks like it's only new growth that's doing this...

[CB]

have you checked soil ph ?

[drumin]

I got a test kit and I'll check the PH. Is this leaf curling a common symptom of PH being out of whack?

[AzGrowa]

pH bein out of whack as you put it will lead to nutrient lockup or the plant's inablitlty to absorb nutrients.
Ideal pH for MJ is 6.5, so once that's where it should be look for other possibly areas. A magnesium deficiency will cause some leaf curl as well
Couple pinches of Epson Salt (magnesium sulfate) on the soil before next wtering should alleviate most of that.
But check your pH first, then add what you need to to bring that into line. Then look into nutrient deficiencies, after the pH has stabilized.

[drumin]

PH was perfect. I'll look at nutes next.

[ndnguy]

Don't see no burn ,might be a lil lockup but would,t be surprised if its in the genes. A flush would definatly not hurt tho.You havn't mentioned what genetics these are??

[Cranky]

i'd try a flush with epsom salts mate as the only thing it looks like to me is lack of mg.;)

all the best

cranky

[drumin]

Genetics, dunno. This is my first grow so I just used some seeds I had lying around. These 2 plants are both different strains. Once I have grown and harvested these I'll buy some good seeds.

Epsom salts, what's the ratio?

[CB]

i'd try a flush with epsom salts mate as the only thing it looks like to me is lack of mg.;)

all the best

cranky

say bro isnt a flush done to remove all built up salt's from nutes ?

proper soil and nute's is the way to go no?

[rolanterroy]

The biggest cause of this (taco curl) I know of is when an organics gardener goes and uses something like pH-Up (potassium hydroxide) in their grow cuz although this does pH-Up your liquid solution, it's effects are different once in your soilmix encountering trace elements and fast release nitrogen et. Al - there are way better ways to pH-Up that are organics friendly, like Spring Water, Fox Farms Big Bloom, Maxicrop, hell even small additions of tap water in a pinch!

Your pH drops and I'm sure the sunshine just speeded things along cuz your plants are almost in slow motion under floros by compare to sunshine yikes!

ANyways, my .02 broski, good luck!

- REv :smoke1:

[reubeni]

Wow:eek: the only time I have seen that type of deformation without leaf discolouration it was bugs they tied the sides of the leaf together to make a haven hope you get to the bottom of it

[rolanterroy]

Yeah, if you see a "bug" has tied the leaf together like that with silk, make sure you don't just go in and kill it because jumping spiders like to make their homes in leaves like that and they are bigtime good to have hangin' around your grow! There are of course lots of worms and stuff that make their homes like that too that are bad bad, but just check it out before you kill kill kill! Heh heh :gthumb:

You could correctly say that the taco curl is caused bt pH too low; however, it's the rapid drop of your pH in your soilmix and normally has little or nothing to do with the pH of your water/solution as long as it is within reason. I seen it lots of times trouble shooting grows where the grower of an organics grow uses pH-Up (potassium hydroxide) with good lumens boomin' (powerful HID lamps pretty close) and PooF taco leaves!

Stop using pH-Up and try pH-ing your water if need be to about 6.8 and you should be all good brohamski! :lamp:

- REv :smoke1:

[drumin]

I give them a good dose of Peter's 20-20-20 every sunday and wednesday with heavy watering on tuesday and friday unless I notice the soil is very dry (pots feel light). So I haven't changed anything since they went into the 5 gal containers a month ago... I checked the PH and it was right on. I dunno, something seems to have shocked them cuz they didn't grow for a week but now they seem back to normal. :hmmmm:

[rolanterroy]

Repeated dosages of synthetic nutes like Peter's will kill off your micro-beasties in the soilmix, and without those the plant must process the nutes itself which is way way more work and it doesn't even absorb nearly as much from what is at hand without the aerobic little beastie bacteria guys in the medium.

Peter's is a GREAT synthetic nute and if you are growing in a mix that you are not trying for organics results with, then it's important you flush, well and often, also important you flush well at the end for about the last 10-14 days or so before harvest. Adding cool organics ferts that rely on the micro-beasties is far less effective so why bother? Just stay straight synthetics or straight organics. Mixing the two dynamics corrctly is very powerful but ya really gotta know what you are doing because it also carries HIGH risks of BIG prollems if ya don't.

- REv :smoke1:

[rolanterroy]

If you have never used pH-Up on them, or dosed them with some K (potassium) lately, or something like seaweed stuff, then it's a straight up pH too low issue, so in that case bring your solution/water pH up 0.5 and see what you see in a couple/few days, if they still Taco then go up another 0.5 pts pH until you find the right number that fits the pH happining in your medium, U C? :)

- REv :smoke1:

[gorilla]

You wanna see some curled leaves? :eek:
http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4722&stc=1&d=1152148615

look at this weird plant.. 5 inches tall, 7 nodes.
http://www.homegrownbud.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=4723&stc=1&d=1152148615

lol :D

[Dooby420]

drumin - one of my plants does the same exact thing and it has the same environment, lighting, water, nutes, soil, etc as the other ladies

It IS however a random bean out of a bag of decent herbs I had

I do believe it may have a bit to do with genetics

cranky - are you sure its Mg bro? That schultz food I use for nutes has some Mg in it but I still got that curl on one of my ladies? Maybe Schultz just has low amounts of Mg?

In my opinion, it doesn't really seem like a big deal unless its really severe. :2cents:

EDIT: Gorilla, that is some pretty severe curls there bro :eek:

[rolanterroy]

Yes absolutely, it is a genetic thing too, some strains react like that far more easily than others do. It's not Mg in my opinion, Mg prollems look much different, it's a pH thing, and more specifically the pH reacting in your medium, like too hot of an organics mix or a mix too high in organic matter without the proper buffer elements in place.

Simply stated, your growing medium is out of balance is all it is and it isn't really a biggie until you get about the last 2-3 weeks from finishing, cuz they will finish harsh with all those trace elements still all active like that.

- REv :smoke1:

[Dooby420]

If it is indeed pH, the result is from acidic pH or alkaline pH? And would a good flush correct the problem?

My lady that has some slight curling issues right now - the tips of leaves on the lower part of the plant are starting to turn black and some have spots :eek:

I believe its nute burn, too much nute also equals acidic pH? I use chemical nutes btw

[rolanterroy]

What do you pH your solution to ?

If you are pure synthetics then just raise the pH of your nute solution and that should fix ya; your pH is so low you are burnin' trace nutes really HOT ...would be my guess. Just don't ever raise it more than 1.0 points in any given 24 hr period. But that will fix ya I have little doubts bro :) Just find the higher pH range that works with your medium.

- REv :smoke1:

[eyeseaire]

All of my plants in veg, and some in flower started looking like this days ago. I'm kinda freakin out. They started to do it the day after I transplanted half of the veg plants into fresh soil.
Had this strain for a while and I've never seen this before, I've done nothing to change the nute regimen, which has worked for a long time.
The only thing I've done Lately is paint the room they are in, of course they were moved out and not back in until dry. Also I watered with water from my dehumidifier. I specifically remember a frothyness about the water that I just thought was some left over nute in the water can, but the watering can WAS reletively clean. I think the dehumidifier water had something in it that messed up the soil. I use fox farm nutes. Chime in if you guys have any ideas.

[Elephunt man]

All of my plants in veg, and some in flower started looking like this days ago. I'm kinda freakin out. They started to do it the day after I transplanted half of the veg plants into fresh soil.
Had this strain for a while and I've never seen this before, I've done nothing to change the nute regimen, which has worked for a long time.
The only thing I've done Lately is paint the room they are in, of course they were moved out and not back in until dry. Also I watered with water from my dehumidifier. I specifically remember a frothyness about the water that I just thought was some left over nute in the water can, but the watering can WAS reletively clean. I think the dehumidifier water had something in it that messed up the soil. I use fox farm nutes. Chime in if you guys have any ideas.

What was the ph of the dehudifier water? I think those put out low ph don't they? In my experience, the taco twisting without discoloration has always seem to be low ph or genetic...actually, how would I know? I would say in your case, it sounds like ph. Whenever I get twisting or curling, I always add a little Ca/Mg to my routine foliars...I have never seen it get worse from this. Usually it is corrected by a little oystershell lime on top and watered in. Hope that helps.

:coffee:

[The Hooded Claw]

Looks like heat stress to me along with some inside outdoor growing confusion/ray shock.

I say give em 24/7 indoor light but at a lowly 16C and give em time with little (but some) air flow for 2 weeks.

Then again, what do I know!

Grow on.....

[eyeseaire]

thanks guys, I always keep an eye on temps so I don't think thats the culpret, regardless when I noticed this, I increased my ventilation. I Didn't think of checking the Dehum's PH, But I checked the runoff and it was 7, but i'm still not convinced it wasn't the dehum's water the ph may have stablized in the medium after the doing the damage(one can only hope.)
I'm stoked drumin had a pic of the exact problem I'm having as my digital cam needs more expensive batteries

[eyeseaire]

could I use hydrated lime to correct Ph? I imagine I could as its a PH buffer, but I don't know the different between oystershell, and hydrated.

[eyeseaire]

I just checked, and it looks like thats what hydrated lime is for (raising PH)

[Elephunt man]

I have some hydrated too, but REv scared me into not using it...he said it is for outdoor growing and in soil...not containers.

If ph runoff is 7...that might be a tad high...but maybe not the culprit...I bet you did just have a fluctuation...pretty sure I remember dehumifier water is a good clean source for ph down, really low. REv is known for tidbits of info like that all over this forum...I do remember it was him who said that though.

I think with a runoff of 7, you might want to feed around 6 or 6.3? Maybe bring soil ph down a tad by doing so?

Anyway, hoping everything goes well, will offer what I can.

:coffee:

[drumin]

I use sodium carbonate (basically baking soda) to raise the PH in my pool, can you use baking soda to raise the ph of your water for MJ?

[drumin]

So what is the best additive for raising the PH of your water? I have in the past used apple vinegar to lower PH is there something natural like that?

[Elephunt man]

Seaweed or kelp additives? Pretty sure they raise ph. I never have to raise mine, but I am in the opinion pinches of ash might work. In the Og grow faq it talks about using hydrated lime watered in, I would just say be careful with that though...maybe mix it well a few times after an hour or so...see if ph stabilizes where you want.

Silicon would be good too, a few products out there.

[RedEyezzzzz]

So what is the best additive for raising the PH of your water? I have in the past used apple vinegar to lower PH is there something natural like that?

Baking soda is used all the time to increase ph levels.