Coverage, or intensity?

[gorilla]

What is the best way to illuminate a 6 foot x 2 foot x 7 foot closet, with a single 400 watt HPS bulb?

A single, steaming hot 400 hanging right in the middle of the closet works, but not all that well. I found that trying to keep it as close to the plants as possible resulted in having to raise it every few nights to avoid burning them. I was not always so lucky! There are more than a few ways around this for a good buck. I want to know what's the best.

Is intensity that important? Will a plant recieving light sooner from the light bulb in one spot, be healthier than a plant recieving light later in all spots? Will the same light further away from a group of plants, in identical situations, produce less weed?/Less potent weed?/Less healthy plants? Obviously on the flip side, will those same plants be healthier under that same light, only closer?

Possible solution #1: A cool tube. My light is a remote ballast, But im sure this could be altered. I would vent through the attic entrance, conveniently located in my closet. My thoughts on this? Seems great, the closet would really cool down! I have a feeling my buds were a little airer than I want them to be because of the heat in my closet. Not to mention the burning. :mad: This would kill the heat, and allow for maximum intensity and penetration; but do absoultely nothing as far as coverage.

Possible solution #2: A light rail/mover. This could be done without any alteration to my light. Not only would I be able to get excellent coverage with this method, I would be able to grow more plants. Only the center of my closet is bright enough to be worth anything right now, and that makes a lot of space utterly useless. Down side? I would'nt get any more intesity than I have now; And unless a moving light produces any less heat and one that's still, my closet would still be very warm.

Nearly impossible solution #3: Combine methods one and two. ;)

I would love to hear what you have to think. If you have any OTHER ideas, let me know. This is all I can come up with. If you think just getting a NEW light or ANOTHER light would be much simpler and more powerful, let me know that. Just want to spend money on one thing, not three, ya get me? :)

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

another 400 would really make that area capable of producing lots of home grown bud.

of course it will compound your heat problems.



the best thing to do is sort out your heat problems before adding more. A 400 is only good enough for a limited area, trying to stretch it you will reach a point of diminishing returns. Sort out the heat from one then consider adding another light.

[Shadows]

400w lights are good for a 3x3, up to a 3x4 space. Any wider then that and the plants on the outskirts of the light will never match whats 4" off center of the light.

A cool tube will only benefit those plants and bud sites directly under or around the bulb. Again, those buds on the outskirts will get left behind.

A light mover is a good option, expensive, but good... I believe however for the cost you would be much better off just getting a second 400w light.

The only other options I can come up with would be to
1- Resize your room to a more effective foot print for your light

2- Consider a coliseum type grow, where the plants on the outskirts are taller then those in the center. It still wont make a dramatic increase in yield, but it will increase what yield those (outskirt plants) would get.

[Fred Lemonjello]

Hey G Mon - Jus wanted to throw in a confrim on what Q & Shadows has mentioned.
Sounds like you need to get the heat issues in order promptly.... cool tube set-ups will really help out tremendously. Then get ya a second 400 watter.. this would be easier & cheaper then a light mover.

Also... if you're planning on venting into the attic space.... you may wanna think about putting a scrubber on that line.... else ya might end up with the whole house reeking of fresh HGB! (Not that it's a bad thang to have the entire home smelling of Sweet Budz.... but take the guests into consideration.)
Now this scrubber doesn't havta be anythang fancy er nutin.... prolly get away with jus using cat litter in a 5 gallon pail. Get with midwestbluntman, he can tell ya how ta do it... er jus do a search round.... plenty of designs out there to pick one that will suit your needs.


Fred

[gorilla]

Hey william. another 400 would really make that area capable of producing lots of home grown bud. Yeah, I agree. For my closet this would be optimal. Too small for bigger lights, But too big for just 1 stationary!

But.. of course it will compound your heat problems.
Any ideas? Thanks!

Hey shadows thanks for the suggestions. Let me just say what the real price ranges are before we get off track. If you ebay a cool tube, and ebay a Light mover.. They're both almost exactly the same price. Actually for an even nicer light mover you're only going to spend an extra $30 or so. This is OK with me. I paid about $60 more for my HPS light than I would for the light mover. So not only would this be more expensive, but it would be much hotter and require even more electricity.

Using a cool tube would leave me in MUCH the same situation as I am in now. By this I mean, I will have a stationary 400 watt light chilling (literally) in the center of my closet. The temps would be much lower, this is a plus, but I would be growing in the same situation.

I have to be honest, I really love the idea of a light mover. But I want to know how those plants, however many more, are going to be health wise? Have any of you ever used a light mover or read grow journals using one?

Hey fredo. Again.. buying another 400 watt light, for the same price I paid last time, would actually be more expensive than a 4' or 6' light mover. Buying another light, and two cool tubes, well.. That is simply not in my budget. Thanks for the ideas about the smell when venting, and It is definately something I'm going to need to have some concern over. My house really stunk up this time and that was WITHOUT any ventilation.

Slightly New Topic. How can I keep things cool? Are there any ways to keep a light on a light mover cool? If not the light, the room as a whole? I don't have the option to go drilling holes in walls, But Like I said i'm lucky enough to have one in the ceiling.

Thanks for brainwashing with me. :)

[ice#1]

why just add a light when that same 400 can cover a 3'x6' foot area easaly with the help of a light-rail granted all the buds would be a little smaller than if you had the bulb right over the center but the buds around the outside would be smaller.but with a light rail the whole area as a whole would be higher and for useing less power then adding a second bulb
option #2 is too add a second light system or just get a bigger light if the latter is chose then use your 400 to lite the veg room

[gorilla]

Thanks for the reply ice. I like to hear what you guys think. I'm trying to be open minded about this but I just have taken a real liking to the light mover routine. Under a 400 I couldn't fit only 4 big plants. If I kept them smaller, maybe 6. With a light mover, I could probably almost double that number.

One of the light movers I was checking out has a pretty neat design. Right along with the moving light, is an outlet box; Good for a fan or w/er else you want to use. My light is capable to hold a glass shield, and it has small vents on the side i could turn into fan holders. Not a bad idea for a very inexpensive, half-ass "cool tube" on a light rail.

[ice#1]

i seen in high times where a guy used a 1000 watt light in a 9 square foot garden so if you wanted you could go bigger you would have to have air cooled and possable an ac but it could be done

[periodically insane]

In my small space, I used a muffin fan hanging from the batwing shade,
blowing the air under a 400 hps, it cut the temps by half, and was able to keep the bulb alot closer

[ChronicSmoker]

Hey gorilla, I use a batwing reflector too in a little bit smaller dimensions than you use. It works good for spreading out the light, but it doesn't spread out the light evenly. If you look at the pic below, you can see on the wall how it distributes the light. Good luck!

[TheStickiestofTheIcky]

That bat-wing is also hanging toward the wall, why would it throw light evenly? I have found, over time, that leaving them higher will improve over-all garden health but might not crank out the couple of fatties in the middle that would be right under the lights, granted I use 4000w in one regular room and having higher, more equal light distribution works well for everyone. It makes everyone have a decent yield and you don't have to mess with lights and possibly burn them if you don't move it every day and a half during rapid growth. The key is plenty of light and plenty of ventilation, which is needed for good growth anyway. Ventable hoods are the only way you will control temps without A/C. Point all the fans at it you want too.

[Dawg]

Thought a couple of light distance charts would be good for this thread for the NEWB.
Keep in mind these refer to amount of light not heat.

[gorilla]

Thought a couple of light distance charts would be good for this thread for the NEWB. ... Who, cranky?
Hehe. For what it's worth dawg :flipa: thanks for the info.

Thanks for the pic chronic smoker. That's pretty interesting. I never noticed such strong differences in light intensity from my light. Maybe Because my reflector is dimpled and it spreads light a little more evenly.

Anyhow, did some research on that light mover. Oddly enough, and probably unfortunately enough, the track says it's rated for 50 pounds. But then it says "Not for use with remote ballast systems." - Well I may as well have wanted to beat someone up. I've got a remote ballast system, Not that I can understand why it wouldn't work? I'd gut the damn thing to make it light enough if that would work.

The light in question, is pictured below. It's a big sucker! 22"x14", and i'm not sure of the weight but i'll tell you: it's a bitch to raise it myself.

(edit: very stoned while posting this.. haha )

[Fred Lemonjello]

Heya G Mon - The references made about buying another lite verses a lite mover were based on a 'Build Your own' 400 watt ballast kit and lamp... not pre-assembled like you're currently running.
Sorry for the confusion Bud! :rasta:


Also to help aid in raising and lowering the lite you already have.... instead of using the single rope & chain system your currently using.
Why not put chain at both ends of the lite.... two nice beefy hooks in the ceiling screwed into studs.


A reflector will greatly increase your light distribution... might wanna think bout making yourself one of those.


Sitting here this morning doin the wake-N-bake... pondering a lite mover....
All your wanting to do is move lite about 2 feet back N forth.... *rightrightright...
And your current lite is remote... a weight issue for the lite mover... *rightrightright....
....... why not strip out the ballast, lenghten the wiring and mount it directly above?

I would venture to say that the reason it has a weight limit is NOT because of weight on the mounting system.... but for the weight on the motor that drives the system. Too much weight on the drive motor and it strains the motor either stopping it dead or causeing it to move more slowly which in turn will burn the motor up. :(


Will keep thinkin.... and adding anythang I may be able to help you out with.


Fred

[WilliamClarkeQuantrill]

I hate being a nit pick, but a remote ballast means the ballast is remote from the reflector.

From G's statements about weight and after looking at the pic of his system, I would assume that his is not a remote but an all in one oe enclosed system. Am I right or am I confused? Either way, i agree with Fred's advice on converting it into a remote ballast.



One other thing I noticed from the pics is his bulb and reflector are positioned parrellel to the longest wall in his grow space. The way the bulb and reflector are designed, they throw or spread the light better from the sides not the ends. So I would recomend turning the fixture 90* so the bulb is perpendicular to the longest wall.

toke it easy :smokin:

[ninja]

IMHO..lose the reflectors, use vertical lighting, and reduce plant numbers accordingly.
crowded grows dont yeild well.

ventillate well, and remember what above poster said about a scrubber for odor.




peep this pic below.
5+ ounces, 1 plant (Thaix WW) 2'x4'x12 ft closet... no vetillation* ( *which I do NOT recommend unless you know yer stuff!*)
800watts ( 2 400w hps) no reflectors!!!! vertical lighting one on each side.

[ninja]

BTW: that ws grown in
Mediumless DWC 5 gallon bubbler using Ionic brand nutes.
the top cola was 56 grams dry.



and I chopped it at 7 weeks due to more plants needing to go in room ( very early..shoulda gone another 4 weeks min.)
prolly could have got a half pound from her had I let her finish properly.

[gorilla]

THANKS SO MUCH Q! I went through a whole grow with my light positioned like this, the whole time wondering if I should turn it the other way. Again, thank you so much!! ( Eh.. just noticed you're right about my grammer. Was meaning to say: Enclosed Ballast system, not Remote Ballast. My bad, thanks for spotting that. )

You too fred, if all it would take to make my system a remote ballast was lengthening the cord a bit, well that would make things so much easier, wouldn't it? Unless I do this, a light mover is out of the question.

Well, very impressive ninja. Personally I dont want to grow just one plant.. I grew 4 big ones last time, and this is the reason I'm rethinking things. Note, you have two 400 watts.. or at least 800 total you said. I only have a 400 watt HPS light an my closer is 6'x2'. To me, that 2' rules out "monster" plants. A long skinny place isn't ideal for growing, and I want to maximize it. If I were to grow one plant i'd get a cabinet or something. But still, very impressive yeild dude.

I'll let you guys know what's up with things, but truth be told the fact that this light mover won't support my ballast really put a hamper on things. Almost gave up and just bought a new light bulb instead, but we'll see.

[ice#1]

gorilla check these guys out they sold me my light railwww.wormsway.com and they can tell you if the system you got can be put on a rail and which one to use

[gorilla]

Thanks Ice, haven't tried but i'm pretty sure what they're gonna say. Looks to be the same light rail i've been checking out, and the same light rail at the store. Guy told me i wouldn't be able to put my enclosed ballast on it, so I'm gathering now that i've heard that in two spots a third won't be too much different. Thing is, anyway, now that I CAN, i'm going to avoid the internet for buying things.

[ninja]

Well, very impressive ninja. Personally I dont want to grow just one plant.. I grew 4 big ones last time, and this is the reason I'm rethinking things. Note, you have two 400 watts.. or at least 800 total you said. I only have a 400 watt HPS light an my closer is 6'x2'. To me, that 2' rules out "monster" plants. A long skinny place isn't ideal for growing, and I want to maximize it. If I were to grow one plant i'd get a cabinet or something. But still, very impressive yeild dude.


thanks.. but im just using that as an example..
before that closet grow I had a 120 plant 6000watt sog grow :D
and at present an 1800watt MWC grow with 16 plants.

the point i was making is that plant would have finished at just over a half p had i let her finish. in a small closet type place, 1 plant or 4 plants...it doesnt matter... a half P per harvest is damn good.

how did i do it?
simple
1. strain choice.
2. vertical lighting to eliminate heat near plant..
3. clean monitored hydrosystem.

that's it..no magic..no secret skill

now read that post i made carefully... i did it with NO ventillation..


the reason for the vertical lighting is
1.. reflectors reflect MUCH more heat than light.
2. vertically, you get less heat near the bulb and plant and more use of the light " band" produced by 400's.
400's IMHO arent the best but " run what you brung "

Im just trying to be positive and help you out..

my advice:
buy another light...lower plant #'s.
crowding kills yield more than growing mistakes or heat stress, man..trust an old school grower on that.

[gorilla]

You're right, a half pound is a very respectable harvest. Thanks for your input Ninja, i'll keep it into consideration.