question: how to plants more potent over time?

[ChronicSmoker]

Hey, I was wondering if anyone knows what makes plants danker over time; how do they evolve into more potent plants. Also if you were to clone the top of the plant and then after it had grown some, clone the same top again (for the purpose of topping the plant) and keep cloning this same top, will it make more potent plants over time?

[Cranky]

greenmachine may be able to help yas out there.i know my bb after 2 years kicks arse...GM has the bb and its going on 3 years now...clones from clones from clones from clones like(march of the clones).like you say

aint smoked it for awhile so not sure how its doing these days.

cranky

[StoninStanley]

i think that cloning clones of clones of clones will make the strain eventually lose its vigor, after all if you could keep cloning clones wouldnt the old G13 strain still be around?

[Cranky]

i think that cloning clones of clones of clones will make the strain eventually lose its vigor, after all if you could keep cloning clones wouldnt the old G13 strain still be around?

all depends if sombody cloned it i gyess dude?:rolleyes:

all i know mate is that i have cloned clones over and over and its just got better as far as a 2 year window gos.

will let you know in 3 weeks how it is after 3 years;)


take care
cranky

[ChronicSmoker]

i think that cloning clones of clones of clones will make the strain eventually lose its vigor, after all if you could keep cloning clones wouldnt the old G13 strain still be around?

Yeah, but then what is it about making seeds then that allows the plant to evolve into a more potent plant. Why would making seeds and breeding plants then allow the plant to evolve whereas cloning would not. Not trying to attack your argument, just trying to provoke some thought.
I guess what i really want to know is what factors caused the old G13 strain which grows on average a much lower amount of THC than say the latest G13 strain. If you grew a seed of the old strain(20 years old or so) and then a seed of the same strain nowadays, the newer strain would be much more potent, right. Then, what has caused it to be locked in its genetic code that the newer G13 strain has the potential to and will grow more THC than the older strain under the same conditions.

[Cranky]

let me just finish this spliff bro;) been pointing flags up and thats all i got on the brain at the mo:o

and ill post my thoughts on it;)

EDIT:k.snorted:cool:

seeds is a diff story...its why ya get diff phenos even though the seeds have come from he same batch..with clones its the same genetics ya growing all the time...not reproducing it.cloning is like growing 1 plant.but ya just don't it in bitts..the clones will mature as time gos on the same as a plant would....its the same genetics over and over...what your saying is that over time there is a change in this and in the amount of time i have kept clones going from clones is that they dont get degrade in anyway.

this SK 1 and BB i got going now is going just as well as when i fist started from seed...maybe better...im only 25 days or so into flower.

also kept a few other strains going for while to using this method and found the same with them.

just my outlook on it;)

havent a clue as to the G13....never grown it or read up o it.

cranky

[ChronicSmoker]

I guess what i really want to know is what factors caused the old G13 strain which grows on average a much lower amount of THC than say the latest G13 strain.

Sorry, forgot to finish my sentence, a bit faded. Should be:
"I guess what i really want to know is what factors caused the new G13 strain which grows on average a much larger amount of THC than the old G13 strain to lock this into its genetic code so that the seeds of the new G13 have a much greater potential than old G13 seeds."

[Fred Lemonjello]

I've been cloning a clone of a clone, etc, etc, etc.... from the same strain NL x AK47 for 3 years now and haven't noticed any change in the plant's growth, appearance, or potent effects.
The seeds that started this batch of clones came from an Ooops I had were one of two things happened.. either a hermie popped or I got some old pollen onto the girls by accident... either way got about 20 seeds outta that deal. :eek:

Now this seems to be working for me and this strain... but others may be having problems of degrading over time with different strains and/ or cloning and/ or growing methods.

Bout the only problem I am having..... is that I'm getting burnt out smoking the stuff all the time! :p


Fred

[ChronicSmoker]

Yeah, I did a little more research and finally found a pretty good article about marijuana potency: (Link Removed.) . guess then the only way to increase potency without changing environment it through breeding.

...sorry, I thougth it was o.k to post other websites, just not forums. Here is some of the information on the wepage though. It was a Cannabis Culture article from January 15, 2002:


Pot potency
by DMT, photos by Jason King (15 Jan, 2002) Forget big colas and stinky buds: it's all about the resin.

Trichomes and resins

Trichomes come in many shapes and sizes and are used by plants for many different purposes. Cannabis uses its trichomes for a variety of purposes, some of which require THC and other cannabinoids to be effective, and others that do not.

The primary goal of any plant is to create and nurture seeds to the point where they will be viable for future growth. Trichomes help prevent seed damage from dessication, insects, animals, light degradation and fungal disease. Perhaps the most successful function of trichomes in the proliferation of cannabis is their attractiveness to humans. What better a creature to protect and spread a genus than the most advanced organism on the planet?

An important thing to remember is that heavy trichome production is not necessarily an indication of a potent plant. Some hemp strains have moderate layers of trichomes yet pack only a headache. In drug strains a dense stand of trichomes is a sign that it could be of high potency, but certainly not a guarantee.

This is because the resins that flow within may or may not hold the THC and other cannabinoids that we are looking for.

Indica varieties often look more heavily crystallized than Sativas, yet typically don't have the same mind-warp capabilities. Even with a known high-THC clone, THC level and cannabinoid ratios may change depending on environmental conditions.

What defines drug strain cannabis is the plant's ability to convert cannabidiol (CBD) or possibly cannabichromene (CBC) into THC.1 If we as growers do not provide the plant with reason to make this conversion it likely will devote its energy elsewhere, to aid in its survival.

Environmental Influence

It takes high quality genetics to produce high quality marijuana, but genetics is only half of the equation. The genetic structure (genotype) only plays 50% of the role in determining the appearance and quality (phenotype) of a given plant. The other half is determined by environmental conditions such as light, temperature, humidity and soil nutrition. All these factors play a role in both the physical and chemical nature of marijuana's trichomes.

The best way to take a look at how environment affects THC production is to look where on the planet cannabis has naturally adopted a high THC profile. As cannabis has spread around the world it has taken on many different traits to help in its adaptation to varied areas. The best drug varieties have always been found at equatorial or high altitude locations. The one thing which both of these variables have in common is high light intensity and a large amount of ultraviolet (UV) light in the spectrum.

Recent Swiss trials in outdoor plots of clones grown at different altitudes have shown that there is correlation between higher altitude and increased potency (although there seems to be a trade off in yield). This likely means that THC-rich resins act to protect the plant and its seed from both higher light intensities and ultraviolet presence. It's no surprise that cannabis has developed a chemical to protect itself against the Sun's damaging UV rays, as they can be injurious to all forms of life.

In a plant's search for survival, energy put towards unneeded processes is wasted energy. Therefore a high-THC plant grown in a low THC environment will likely produce a medium THC result.

Humidity also plays a role in plant resin production. Although some potent equatorial strains do seem to occur in high humidity areas, most high-test land races have evolved in drier areas, like Afghanistan. The aridity of the areas of Afghanistan where Indica strains have evolved is quite apparent by the trait of large dense flower clusters. This would only be an advantage in an area of low humidity, as flowers will mold in anything more.2

There are many examples of non-cannabis plants producing resins in order to protect themselves from drying out. The waxy coating on cacti and other succulent plants is a prime example.3 Marijuana flowered in humid conditions will often have a longer stalk on the glandular trichome than the same strain grown in drier conditions. While this may give the appearance of being very crystallized, it will likely contain less THC than the same plant grown in a drier environment. Another problem with longer trichome stalks is that the gland heads are more likely to break off during handling.

Flushing: pros and cons

Much time and thought has been put into the feeding needs of each part of marijuana's life cycle, yet for some reason the final stages of resin development always seem to be ignored. But the vegetative period of plant growth is only setting the platform for us to produce the trichomes that we are after.

Flushing in particular seems to be something that is over-emphasized by many of today's growers. Many growers "flush" their plants with straight water or clearing agents during the final weeks before harvest in an effort to improve taste and smokeability. The theory is that this forces the plant to use up stored nutrients that may affect these qualities. Although this is certainly true to some extent, what many are forgetting is that not all nutrients can be moved within the plant.

Nitrogen, which is the main factor in poor-tasting bud, can be moved within the plant. If not present in the root zone a plant will take it from the older leaves to support newer growth. Calcium, however, is a nutrient that cannot be moved within the plant, if it is not present in the root zone it is not available for growth. Little research has been done on nutritional requirements of cannabis during the final stages of flowering, but it seems likely that calcium is vital as it is crucial in cell division. A calcium deficiency at later stages could therefore adversely affect trichome production.

This is not as serious of a concern for soil-based growers, as lime or other calcium sources which are mixed into the soil likely will provide sufficient nutrition even while flushing with pure water. But hydroponic growers using very pure water sources with little naturally occurring calcium could have problems. Flushing is certainly a valid technique, but is easily overdone and is not a quick fix for overfeeding earlier in the flower stage.

Some studies have shown that high potassium levels have a negative influence on THC production,4 which would correlate to the general belief that while hemp crops uptake more potassium than phosphorous, the reverse seems to be true for drug and seed cannabis crops.2 A study on how to minimize THC levels in hemp crops showed that THC levels in newer leaf growth decreased as nitrogen levels were increased.5 As no THC measurement was taken from floral clusters we can only speculate that the same would likely hold true in buds. This would also explain the good results that most growers have flushing their plants, as nitrogen is the nutrient most easily flushed from the soil.

Breeding for potency

Marijuana is unique from an evolutionary standpoint in being the only plant in history that in some cases has been grown and bred for over two decades under nothing but artificial light. It is very likely that there have already been some genetic changes that have taken place as a result of this. All plants, especially cannabis, will quickly adapt to a new habitat by adding or dropping traits over successive generations. With breeders doing potentially as many as three or four generations per year, over 20 years there is great opportunity for drift from original genotypes.

Some "oldtimers" of the cannabis community have theorized that the use of high pressure sodium (HPS) light as a sole source of lighting has resulted in unconscious selection for lower THC parents during breeding.7 This theory is based on the assumption that ultraviolet light is a large causal factor in the plants production of THC. As HPS lights produce little in the way of UV, the lower potency plants could look the most vigorous in early selections (before flowering) as they would have a genetic advantage over high THC plants (less wasted energy).

A common way of conducting a breeding program where space is limited is to start large seed lots and then select the best individuals for flowering. Vic High and others have done some preliminary research into creating high UV environments by adding tanning or medical UV lights to their regular lighting for early seedling selections.8 As most Dutch breeding is done behind closed doors it is unknown whether this is used by any breeders in Holland.
(article continued below)

[StoninStanley]

hmmm i was always under the impression that clones cloned over and over would lose vigor, and this is the reason you should keep a mother, so you dont have to take a clone of a clone of a clone. marijuana is an annual, after all, and it makes sense that you couldnt keep 1 plant alive forever. maybe you could keep it alive for 5-10, hell maybe even 15 or 20 years. but doesnt it seem plausible that it would lose vigor because its so damn old?

i dont know, im probably wrong. ive always taken a clone off my plants when i find out sex, then keep that clone as my mother. i've kept the same mother around for about 6 months, so im not continually cloning new mothers.

and ChronicSmoker i have 2 words for you "artificial selection." choose ONLY the very best plants from your stock for better seeds. when it comes to males i always choose the most vigorous healthy and fav. plant. however im sure it would be a good idea to even try smoking them to see which is the most potent. this is the way to improve any strain. one thing that helps is having many plants to choose from from the beginning

[ChronicSmoker]

(continued from above)

Tricks of the Trade

Delving through the history of marijuana cultivation you will find a myriad of techniques used to supposedly increase THC production. Much of this is little more than hippie folklore, but over the years some techniques have appeared which seem based on some amount of science.

Although some of the younger growers these days may never have used a metal halide light, many of the older set still swear by them as a complement to high-pressure sodiums in the flower room. With the advent several years ago of the Son-Agro HPS bulbs and others like it, which offer a higher amount of blue in the spectrum than standard HPS, many growers have felt that that they can do away with metal halides altogether. Growing strictly under sodiums has its advantages in terms of yield per watt, but is still lacking as far as a balanced spectrum when compared to a mix of HPS and halide.

Anyone that has ever seen a mixed light garden can testify that the healthiest, most crystallized buds occur where the two spectrums overlap. Again this brings us back to the UV factor, as metal halide bulbs emit a fair amount of UV while HPS emit almost none. Most growers employing halides in conjunction with HPS do so at a 2:1 HPS:halide ratio. Many growers, especially those restricted to one light, have been having good success using one of the new enhanced metal halide bulbs such as Sunmaster, which have a more balanced spectrum than either sodium or regular halide alone.

Glass and plastic materials used in greenhouses and air/water cooled light reflectors will block most useful wavelengths of UV from reaching plants. Luckily, recent research has shown that allowing UV to enter the greenhouse has many advantages on non-cannabis crops, and so some European greenhouses are beginning to switch to UV transparent glazing materials. Trade names for some of these products are Planilux, Diamant or Optiwhite. Plastic made from polymethylmethacrylate (PMMA) also transmits UV-B (the type that we are looking for). Traditional greenhouse coverings such as polyvinyl chloride (PVC), fiberglass, polycarbonate or regular glass allow little if any UV-B transmission.9

Harvesting in the morning ensures that your plant will be at peak THC content, as cannabis has shown THC fluctuations peaking in morning and dropping during the day. Some growers leave their lights off for several days before harvest to increase potency. This seems to have some scientific validity as light has been shown to degrade THC, hence the morning peaks. As light is the degrading factor and the plant still has the ability to manufacture THC during darkness, leaving the lights off for a day or two before harvest likely utilizes the plants stored potential for THC conversion without any opportunity for it to be degraded into cannabinol (CBN) and other breakdown products.8